Author Topic: Swimming with Wife at empty hotel pools (Read 33211 times)

moish · « **Reply #80 on:** February 13, 2011, 10:19:58 AM »

Quote from: kivabb on February 13, 2011, 09:50:57 AM

Wasn't sure if this is right place to post, but being that we’re talking about tznius and LOR's, I was hoping people would post their experience so I can give the facts to my LOR. Considering taking my wife to kauai grand hyatt and trying to gauge if it's possible to go to such a place without having someone else’s wife's bathing suit in your face. Is there a better time of year to go to avoid pritzus. I understand in the summer when you travel, that you have to be extra careful. But somehow the ideas of Hawaii and a beach hotel seem to make that more complicated. Your input is appreciated.

the bathing suit part in your face is not the problem...

Dan · « **Reply #81 on:** February 13, 2011, 11:02:53 AM »

Quote from: kivabb on February 13, 2011, 09:50:57 AM

Wasn't sure if this is right place to post, but being that we’re talking about tznius and LOR's, I was hoping people would post their experience so I can give the facts to my LOR. Considering taking my wife to kauai grand hyatt and trying to gauge if it's possible to go to such a place without having someone else’s wife's bathing suit in your face. Is there a better time of year to go to avoid pritzus. I understand in the summer when you travel, that you have to be extra careful. But somehow the ideas of Hawaii and a beach hotel seem to make that more complicated. Your input is appreciated.

Quote from: Dan on February 09, 2011, 12:12:19 AM

Besides are you going to tell me that there are cameras covering the endless amounts of pools and hot tubs in a place like the Grand Hyatt Kauai? And that the cameras can pick up whats going on at night? Maybe there are cameras in the GHK in the little caves hidden behind the waterfalls along the pool?
And I'm sure there's a whole team of guards actively watching the 500 screens it would take to cover all that...

A forum member (and concierge purchaser) is there right now actually. Maybe he can chime in about this secret labyrinth of snooping cameras?

Quote from: Smirk on February 10, 2011, 05:52:22 PM

Definitely no cameras by the pool i haven't even seen one in the actual hotel, you can for sure find a hidden spot in the fantastically huge pool to swim where no one will see you (or quickly go in the cave/s under the waterfall and do whatever you wish in there

SuperFlyer · « **Reply #82 on:** February 13, 2011, 02:13:24 PM »

I know some scenic beaches in Greenland, which might be permissible due to the lack of peepers.

kivabb · « **Reply #83 on:** February 13, 2011, 08:12:30 PM »

I'm wasn't referring to going swimming with my wife. Just want to enjoy the natural beauty of the place I'm visiting. I'm sure like Dan said there's plenty of nooks and crannies, but can I get to them, enjoy the beauty of Kauai and not throw away yoke of heaven?

Dan · « **Reply #84 on:** February 13, 2011, 08:14:05 PM »

Quote from: kivabb on February 13, 2011, 08:12:30 PM

I'm wasn't referring to going swimming with my wife. Just want to enjoy the natural beauty of the place I'm visiting. I'm sure like Dan said there's plenty of nooks and crannies, but can I get to them, enjoy the beauty of Kauai and not throw away yoke of heaven?

Yes.
http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/6088

eliteflyer · « **Reply #85 on:** February 13, 2011, 08:16:53 PM »

Quote from: kivabb on February 13, 2011, 08:12:30 PM

I'm wasn't referring to going swimming with my wife. Just want to enjoy the natural beauty of the place I'm visiting. I'm sure like Dan said there's plenty of nooks and crannies, but can I get to them, enjoy the beauty of Kauai and not throw away yoke of heaven?

Does the yoke of heaven require that you have a daily minyan?

kivabb · « **Reply #86 on:** February 13, 2011, 08:22:48 PM »

Quote from: eliteflyer on February 13, 2011, 08:16:53 PM

Does the yoke of heaven require that you have a daily minyan?

No. I know it's not lechatchila, but some time away, fresh air and beautiful scenery is very healing for me.

mancunian · « **Reply #87 on:** February 13, 2011, 09:09:44 PM »

wow this is intense.

dirah i would offer you a cigarrette, thats all i can conclude from this thread.

but i am impressed with your arguments. but in all honesty, i dont really see the argument here

dirah is saying that makom sheminhag lechasos is not defined (at all?) by what goyim do there. so a bathroom has a din of...
and the tree that the locals use as a bathroom you wouldnt use? somewhat far but i believe there is some consideration of what the goyim do.

i would think that if everyone ran around ingantzen arum it wouldnt be an issue, just like a mikva. the issue would be the taaruvos. am i wrong? so when theres womens swimming day its an issue?

THAT i believe was chuchem's argument, that while it is not minhag lechasos there still may be people, as it not a private pool.
and a 1% chance of someone seeing you i dont think qualifies as an argument, because, although tznius has to do with hergeishim, here is not minhag lechasos, and the person seeing is an issue separately. its just women's swimming day with a bigger chance of someone walking in.

so the question, isolated, is how private can one consider this situation.

but then again, i am single, so me and dirah should be staying out of this thread

Cholentfresser · « **Reply #88 on:** February 13, 2011, 09:23:24 PM »

oh, maybe I should also be staying out of this thread (for now...)

SuperFlyer · « **Reply #89 on:** February 14, 2011, 01:27:23 AM »

A minyan is only a chiyuv (yoke...) If within a certain distance. If there is no minyan there is no problem*.

* for sha'alos you don't want to publish, ask your frequent flyer via PM.

Craziness aside, please consult a rabbi, and keep the posts here just to raise awareness.

dirah · « **Reply #90 on:** February 14, 2011, 06:32:42 AM »

Mancunian,
1. Makom sheminhag lechasos is defined not by how any human being would cover himself, but rather, by how a “Shulchan-Aruch-Yid” would cover himself in that place. As I showed above, this is just a matter of simple (not-so-common?) common-sense; all the more so in our times, when one thinks even for a second about the current state of society.
2. I am not sure what your point about the bathroom is. Last I checked, going to the bathroom is not an exclusively Goyishe pastime. Yidden go too! And our covering up there is not dictated by what the Nochrim do, but rather, by how a “Shulchan-Aruch-Yid” would cover himself up. In fact, you have simply bolstered my argument – check Shulchan Oruch (OC Siman 3), and you will discover that a Yid is expected to cover himself in a manner which I suspect is very different to the way that a Nochri would cover himself up in the bathroom.
3. I don’t think you understood my “1% chance” point. In my first comment, I noted that there are situations when there is a valid question to what extent one must cover up. However, in a place where Halacha dictates that one must cover up, then one must do so even if at a certain given moment there is only a 1% chance of being seen.
4. Thanks for the cigarette, but I can’t stand the smell of smoke, and neither can my wife. But for all those people who find me too fired up, I want to stress that I was taking issue with views being expressed, and not with the one who expressed those views – whom I don’t even know in real life!

chuchem · « **Reply #91 on:** February 14, 2011, 04:06:06 PM »

Quote from: moish on February 13, 2011, 10:19:58 AM

the bathing suit part in your face is not the problem...

A man seeing ladys in bathing suits is not a problem? Not being frum, just asking?!

chuchem · « **Reply #92 on:** February 14, 2011, 04:11:37 PM »

I asked my Rabbi and he said he never heard of such a thing and a wife cant go in a bathing suit in front of other people. I told him about the the "minhag lechasois....goim..." He said he never heard of it, but will ask a big poisek. That poisek told him, he once heard that there are rabbis that are more "meikal" on this, but he does not know of any frum, heimishe Row that allows it and he also holds that its assur gomur. Do whatever you want, I am not giving out a "psak" this is just some feedback

Dan · « **Reply #93 on:** February 14, 2011, 04:16:36 PM »

Quote from: chuchem on February 14, 2011, 04:11:37 PM

I asked my Rabbi and he said he never heard of such a thing and a wife cant go in a bathing suit in front of other people.

Since when were we discussing in front of other people?

moish · « **Reply #94 on:** February 14, 2011, 05:38:36 PM »

Quote from: chuchem on February 14, 2011, 04:06:06 PM

A man seeing ladys in bathing suits is not a problem? Not being frum, just asking?!

he said

Quote from: kivabb on February 13, 2011, 09:50:57 AM

trying to gauge if it's possible to go to such a place without having someone else’s wife's bathing suit in your face

im just pointing out that the problem is where theres no bathing suit

chuchem · « **Reply #95 on:** February 14, 2011, 05:53:28 PM »

Quote from: Dan on February 14, 2011, 04:16:36 PM

Since when were we discussing in front of other people?

That was part of this discussion. In most cases when you go swimming with your wife other people will be around, if not then there is anyway no problem. The whole "shailo" was were other people are around

Cholentfresser · « **Reply #96 on:** February 14, 2011, 08:46:05 PM »

I thought the original question was going to an empty pool. do u need to worry that someone might appear?

Dan · « **Reply #97 on:** February 14, 2011, 08:48:19 PM »

Quote from: Cholentfresser on February 14, 2011, 08:46:05 PM

I thought the original question was going to an empty pool. do u need to worry that someone might appear?

You have to know the situation.
If it is one big standard hotel pool it's one thing. If it's an endless amount of pools and lagoons like at the GH Kauai it's another IMO.
And if it's on an isolated 15 mile long beach like Kauai's Polihale it's also another.

Cholentfresser · « **Reply #98 on:** February 14, 2011, 08:56:34 PM »

I wasn't asking the question, I was just saying what I thought the original question was...

Deal Guy · « **Reply #99 on:** February 15, 2011, 01:28:22 AM »

Quote from: SuperFlyer on February 14, 2011, 01:27:23 AM

A minyan is only a chiyuv (yoke...) If within a certain distance. If there is no minyan there is no problem*.

Craziness aside, please consult a rabbi, and keep the posts here just to raise awareness.

I spoke with a few Rabbanim, and while it's true that if there is no minyan within a certain distance, you may not be m'chuyav to get to one, but they would not give me a heter to go on vacation to such a place. As one of them said, "It's one thing to go there on business, but to go on vacation, when there are so many places to go to that have minyan, I can't give you a heter".