Footsteps - Friend or Foe?

[sky121]

I'm not 100% familiar with Footsteps. Encouraging people to leave their religion is one thing. Helping someone who wants to be part of the world in a different way they were raised is another. I've never donated money to Footsteps but from the little I know they seem like a great organization that is needed in our communities. Again I don't know their attitude exactly but to help people find a place and people to encourage them when they are lost seems like a worthy cause to me. They may or may not be doing it in a way I agree with but the general idea behind the organization is needed in my opinion.

[elit]

I'm not 100% familiar with Footsteps. Encouraging people to leave their religion is one thing. Helping someone who wants to be part of the world in a different way they were raised is another. I've never donated money to Footsteps but from the little I know they seem like a great organization that is needed in our communities. Again I don't know their attitude exactly but to help people find a place and people to encourage them when they are lost seems like a worthy cause to me. They may or may not be doing it in a way I agree with but the general idea behind the organization is needed in my opinion.

No one's arguing with the need the question is off they r intent with helping people leave Judaism and everyone here who is familiar with then days that's their intent. ..

[yesitsme]

No one's arguing with the need the question is off they r intent with helping people leave Judaism and everyone here who is familiar with them says that's their intent. ..

FTFY

[Moshe123]

I'm not 100% familiar with Footsteps. Encouraging people to leave their religion is one thing. Helping someone who wants to be part of the world in a different way they were raised is another. I've never donated money to Footsteps but from the little I know they seem like a great organization that is needed in our communities. Again I don't know their attitude exactly but to help people find a place and people to encourage them when they are lost seems like a worthy cause to me. They may or may not be doing it in a way I agree with but the general idea behind the organization is needed in my opinion.

You have no freaking clue of what they are. Ask around.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

You're right. Look around and see-often those who profess to being "open minded" are in fact extremely closed minded because they're totally closed minded in their opinions about people they consider closed minded. Take a look at that coffee container picture thread and you'll see this in action. The great Amerivan rule of "live and let live" is suddenly cast aside in favor of "how dare these people be so closed minded?". I'm sure had the situation been reversed and frum people had been complaining about something they perceived others to have done wrong we would have heard this open minded voices clamping for tolerance and open mindedness.

Open minded is thinking yourself and open to new ideas but it seems you feel the opposite.

[aygart]

If you can't understand why a religious person would be against an organization whose goal is to support those leaving the religion then aj is probably right about you

[clear thinker]

You're right. Look around and see-often those who profess to being "open minded" are in fact extremely closed minded because they're totally closed minded in their opinions about people they consider closed minded. Take a look at that coffee container picture thread and you'll see this in action. The great Amerivan rule of "live and let live" is suddenly cast aside in favor of "how dare these people be so closed minded?". I'm sure had the situation been reversed and frum people had been complaining about something they perceived others to have done wrong we would have heard this open minded voices clamping for tolerance and open mindedness.

the only ones that ddfrs have no pity on are Charaidim .
they are scorned and ridiculed.
For everyone else , our compassion is unlimited .

[ual902]

I met many footsteppers, they have their own jewish politics one would not be accepted in footsteps if he/she does not share their agnostic / athiest beliefs.

[ShlockDoc]

If you can't understand why a religious person would be against an organization whose goal is to support those leaving the religion then aj is probably right about you

There's a difference between support and encourage. Even though I am happy in an orthodox community, there are those that aren't.  Not everything is for everyone.  And those that leave with no friends, family, education, community really face a very difficult time.  The mitzvah to help our fellow man most definitely applies to them.  I hope that explains why a religious person would be in favor of an organization that SUPPORTS people who leave the fold. 

If the organization ENCOURAGES people to leave, that's something else.  I don't expect a religious person to support such an organization.

[Aj3042]

There's a difference between support and encourage. Even though I am happy in an orthodox community, there are those that aren't.  Not everything is for everyone.  And those that leave with no friends, family, education, community really face a very difficult time.  The mitzvah to help our fellow man most definitely applies to them.  I hope that explains why a religious person would be in favor of an organization that SUPPORTS people who leave the fold. 

If the organization ENCOURAGES people to leave, that's something else.  I don't expect a religious person to support such an organization.

Sorry, Torah and mitzvos are for everyone. Period, end of sentence.

[Dan]

Is there no org that encourages people to stay in the fold but teaches life skills and secular studies to be able to get regular jobs?

[aygart]

There's a difference between support and encourage. Even though I am happy in an orthodox community, there are those that aren't.  Not everything is for everyone.  And those that leave with no friends, family, education, community really face a very difficult time.  The mitzvah to help our fellow man most definitely applies to them.  I hope that explains why a religious person would be in favor of an organization that SUPPORTS people who leave the fold. 

If the organization ENCOURAGES people to leave, that's something else.  I don't expect a religious person to support such an organization.

1. I did not mention anything about your support for them, only your difficulty understanding why others would be against them.
2. While I can understand how you may make such a distinction I think it is somewhat delusional. It is nearly impossible to have an organization specifically to support them without encouraging them. Even simply making them comfortable in their leaving is encouragement as well. There is no way to do that while stressing that they are doing something wrong.

[Aj3042]

Is there no org that encourages people to stay in the fold but teaches life skills and secular studies to be able to get regular jobs?

Unfortunately it's not too difficult to believe that this is true (or mostly true).

1. I did not mention anything about your support for them, only your difficulty understanding why others would be against them.
2. While I can understand how you may make such a distinction I think it is somewhat delusional. It is nearly impossible to have an organization specifically to support them without encouraging them. Even simply making them comfortable in their leaving is encouragement as well. There is no way to do that while stressing that they are doing something wrong.

Point #2 is well said. I told him the same a couple posts back but you put it even better.

[clear thinker]

Sorry, Torah and mitzvos are for everyone. Period, end of sentence.

You can't understand supporting an organization that doesn't think so?
Why not? If I don't want to keep mitzvohs that's my right.
If I want to be gay it's my right.

Point: it tends to go in a pattern. the idea that I'm allowed to do whatever I want, till the other person wants to do whatever they want that's when we go full throttle back wards!
Ie I'm allowed to be gay it's my right, but I'm allowed to force the baker to bake me the cake, he doesn't have a right only I do!
Liberalism is a disease.

[Aaaron]

I met many footsteppers, they have their own jewish politics one would not be accepted in footsteps if he/she does not share their agnostic / athiest beliefs.

That's pure BS. I know many footsteppers and have friends who've been to many of their events, and I see pictures all over Facebook. There are plenty of members who are just less religious than where they began, but still observant.

[Aj3042]

You can't understand supporting an organization that doesn't think so?
Why not? If I don't want to keep mitzvohs that's my right.
If I want to be gay it's my right.

Point: it tends to go in a pattern. the idea that I'm allowed to do whatever I want, till the other person wants to whatever they want that's when we go full throttle back wards!
Ie I'm allowed to be gay it's my right, but I'm allowed to force the baker to bake me the cake, he doesn't have a right only I do!
Liberalism is a disease.

LOL the hypocrisy is unbelievable.

[ual902]

That's pure BS. I know many footsteppers and have friends who've been to many of their events, and I see pictures all over Facebook. There are plenty of members who are just less religious than where they began, but still observant.

I even went to some footsteps parties and your looked at weird wearing a yarmulka,  the place is made for ex satmars / ex chasidim who want to be athiest, that is the crowd.

[ual902]

Another observations about footsteps, at a party in Brooklyn there was the kosher food side and the trief food side, the few people that did choose taking from the kosher side were looked upon like wierdos. This is brooklyn there are plenty very high quality kosher food but yet footsteps needed to have both trief and kosher.

[Aaaron]

I even went to some footsteps parties and your looked at weird wearing a yarmulka,  the place is made for ex satmars / ex chasidim who want to be athiest, that is the crowd.

Right. So because you were "looked at weird" by some members means that's it's only for atheists. Got it.

[Aj3042]

Another observations about footsteps, at a party in Brooklyn there was the kosher food side and the trief food side, the few people that did choose taking from the kosher side were looked upon like wierdos. This is brooklyn there are plenty very high quality kosher food but yet footsteps needed to have both trief and kosher.

Wow, feeding Jews treif food. How in the world can anyone support them?