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If you are looking to support a safety net for people who left the orthodox world, you can direct funds to "Our Place".
« Last edited by ShlockDoc on August 31, 2015, 06:56:31 PM »

Poll

Footsteps Friend or For?

Friend
4 (6.3%)
Foe
50 (79.4%)
Never heard of them
9 (14.3%)

Total Members Voted: 63

Author Topic: Footsteps - Friend or Foe?  (Read 13943 times)

Offline ShlockDoc

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Re: Footsteps - Friend or Foe?
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2015, 03:31:51 AM »
This is not the place where that's gonna happen. Everyone is just going to end up more entrenched in their original position. You included.

I think there's value in understanding opposing viewpoints even if they don't convince me.   I've already gotten a better understanding of why people don't like footsteps.

Offline Yammer

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Re: Footsteps - Friend or Foe?
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2015, 05:04:26 AM »
While I am a shomer torah umitzvos Orthodox Jew, I've always been a financial supporter of footsteps because I understood that they provided a safety net for people who left the orthodox world.  I thought that's a great cause, ie helping a Jew in their time of need even if I personally disagree with that persons decision to leave. 

People in a separate thread and via PM told me that they view Footsteps in a negative light. Since I'm an outsider to the communities that these people are leaving I genuinely don't understand the objections to the organization. 

I consider myself relatively open minded (don't we all) so can someone please tell me what this organization does wrong? Are there instances of them trying to convince people to leave the derech as opposed to just supporting them if they do? I think that would be inappropriate if it happens.
I know 2 couples that divorced and the wife stopped keeping Shabbos etc...
Footsteps actually came to the house to pickup her up and move her belongings on Shabbos

W/o their support many many people wouldn't have the guts to drop everything and run.

Offline yesitsme

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Re: Footsteps - Friend or Foe?
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2015, 08:11:14 AM »
While I am a shomer torah umitzvos Orthodox Jew, I've always been a financial supporter of footsteps because I understood that they provided a safety net for people who left the orthodox world.  I thought that's a great cause, ie helping a Jew in their time of need even if I personally disagree with that persons decision to leave. 

People in a separate thread and via PM told me that they view Footsteps in a negative light. Since I'm an outsider to the communities that these people are leaving I genuinely don't understand the objections to the organization. 

I consider myself relatively open minded (don't we all) so can someone please tell me what this organization does wrong? Are there instances of them trying to convince people to leave the derech as opposed to just supporting them if they do? I think that would be inappropriate if it happens.
If you are looking to support a safety net for people who left the orthodox world, you should direct the funds to "Our Place", Footsteps Goal is to help people go down the drain as deep possible

Offline elit

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Re: Footsteps - Friend or Foe?
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2015, 08:18:14 AM »
While I am a shomer torah umitzvos Orthodox Jew, I've always been a financial supporter of footsteps because I understood that they provided a safety net for people who left the orthodox world.  I thought that's a great cause, ie helping a Jew in their time of need even if I personally disagree with that persons decision to leave. 

People in a separate thread and via PM told me that they view Footsteps in a negative light. Since I'm an outsider to the communities that these people are leaving I genuinely don't understand the objections to the organization. 

I consider myself relatively open minded (don't we all) so can someone please tell me what this organization does wrong? Are there instances of them trying to convince people to leave the derech as opposed to just supporting them if they do? I think that would be inappropriate if it happens.
There are other organizations that help ppl leaving  the fold intent of keeping them as close as possible that could use your maaser money as oppose to footsteps who helps facilitate them leaving Yiddishkite. Feel free to pm me for other options.

Online good sam

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Re: Footsteps - Friend or Foe?
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2015, 08:23:06 AM »
I was under the impression that there is actual encouraging of 'leaving the fold' not just support once leaving. I don't have actual data though.
Of course they do. The guys and gals who run it are the most outspoken former chasidim out there. I can't fathom a frum person wanting to contribute.
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline sky121

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Re: Footsteps - Friend or Foe?
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2015, 08:24:43 AM »
I'm not 100% familiar with Footsteps. Encouraging people to leave their religion is one thing. Helping someone who wants to be part of the world in a different way they were raised is another. I've never donated money to Footsteps but from the little I know they seem like a great organization that is needed in our communities. Again I don't know their attitude exactly but to help people find a place and people to encourage them when they are lost seems like a worthy cause to me. They may or may not be doing it in a way I agree with but the general idea behind the organization is needed in my opinion.
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline elit

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Re: Footsteps - Friend or Foe?
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2015, 08:40:46 AM »
I'm not 100% familiar with Footsteps. Encouraging people to leave their religion is one thing. Helping someone who wants to be part of the world in a different way they were raised is another. I've never donated money to Footsteps but from the little I know they seem like a great organization that is needed in our communities. Again I don't know their attitude exactly but to help people find a place and people to encourage them when they are lost seems like a worthy cause to me. They may or may not be doing it in a way I agree with but the general idea behind the organization is needed in my opinion.
No one's arguing with the need the question is off they r intent with helping people leave Judaism and everyone here who is familiar with then days that's their intent. ..

Offline yesitsme

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Re: Footsteps - Friend or Foe?
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2015, 08:42:59 AM »
No one's arguing with the need the question is off they r intent with helping people leave Judaism and everyone here who is familiar with them says that's their intent. ..
FTFY

Offline Moshe123

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Re: Footsteps - Friend or Foe?
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2015, 09:13:24 AM »
I'm not 100% familiar with Footsteps. Encouraging people to leave their religion is one thing. Helping someone who wants to be part of the world in a different way they were raised is another. I've never donated money to Footsteps but from the little I know they seem like a great organization that is needed in our communities. Again I don't know their attitude exactly but to help people find a place and people to encourage them when they are lost seems like a worthy cause to me. They may or may not be doing it in a way I agree with but the general idea behind the organization is needed in my opinion.



You have no freaking clue of what they are. Ask around.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Footsteps - Friend or Foe?
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2015, 09:22:28 AM »
You're right. Look around and see-often those who profess to being "open minded" are in fact extremely closed minded because they're totally closed minded in their opinions about people they consider closed minded. Take a look at that coffee container picture thread and you'll see this in action. The great Amerivan rule of "live and let live" is suddenly cast aside in favor of "how dare these people be so closed minded?". I'm sure had the situation been reversed and frum people had been complaining about something they perceived others to have done wrong we would have heard this open minded voices clamping for tolerance and open mindedness.
Open minded is thinking yourself and open to new ideas but it seems you feel the opposite.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline aygart

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Re: Footsteps - Friend or Foe?
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2015, 10:29:57 AM »
If you can't understand why a religious person would be against an organization whose goal is to support those leaving the religion then aj is probably right about you
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline clear thinker

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Re: Footsteps - Friend or Foe?
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2015, 10:45:05 AM »
You're right. Look around and see-often those who profess to being "open minded" are in fact extremely closed minded because they're totally closed minded in their opinions about people they consider closed minded. Take a look at that coffee container picture thread and you'll see this in action. The great Amerivan rule of "live and let live" is suddenly cast aside in favor of "how dare these people be so closed minded?". I'm sure had the situation been reversed and frum people had been complaining about something they perceived others to have done wrong we would have heard this open minded voices clamping for tolerance and open mindedness.
the only ones that ddfrs have no pity on are Charaidim .
they are scorned and ridiculed.
For everyone else , our compassion is unlimited .

Online ual902

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Re: Footsteps - Friend or Foe?
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2015, 10:50:36 AM »
I met many footsteppers, they have their own jewish politics one would not be accepted in footsteps if he/she does not share their agnostic / athiest beliefs.

Offline ShlockDoc

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Re: Footsteps - Friend or Foe?
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2015, 11:01:14 AM »
If you can't understand why a religious person would be against an organization whose goal is to support those leaving the religion then aj is probably right about you

There's a difference between support and encourage. Even though I am happy in an orthodox community, there are those that aren't.  Not everything is for everyone.  And those that leave with no friends, family, education, community really face a very difficult time.  The mitzvah to help our fellow man most definitely applies to them.  I hope that explains why a religious person would be in favor of an organization that SUPPORTS people who leave the fold. 

If the organization ENCOURAGES people to leave, that's something else.  I don't expect a religious person to support such an organization.

Offline Aj3042

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Re: Footsteps - Friend or Foe?
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2015, 11:14:38 AM »
There's a difference between support and encourage. Even though I am happy in an orthodox community, there are those that aren't.  Not everything is for everyone.  And those that leave with no friends, family, education, community really face a very difficult time.  The mitzvah to help our fellow man most definitely applies to them.  I hope that explains why a religious person would be in favor of an organization that SUPPORTS people who leave the fold. 

If the organization ENCOURAGES people to leave, that's something else.  I don't expect a religious person to support such an organization.
Sorry, Torah and mitzvos are for everyone. Period, end of sentence.