Tasters Choice (Split From Pictures Thread)

[Aj3042]

Asking someone to move? sure there is - In a case where it's quite clear that it will only anger the person/give them fuel to "hate" on the jews.

Sorry that won't fly. "Give them fuel to hate"? If they hate, they'll hate, if they don't they won't. If a Jew has a legitimate religious sensivity on the line the last thing he had to worry about is whether he'll cause the non Jew to hate him. Totally irrelevant.
Besides, anyone who hates someone for asking him/her to move in a situation like this needs mental help.

[Aj3042]

As I have illustrated above, along can be am imposition as well, but I do not think that would be the case on an ElAl flight. Simply asking is not what you are seeing in the news either. What you are seeing is when someone holds up a whole flight due to his extra sensitivity.

Maybe if he's holding up the place you have a point. However, it usually doesn't come to that. Also, in today's politically correct world, we're constantly bending over backwards not to insult anyone's sensitives. If a Muslim would decide he needs to move because the guy next to him is eating pork the whole plane staff would be bending over backwards to help him. A Jew ASKS someone to move and the whole world is up in arms.

[moish]

is it an imposition to ask a supermarket to cover the magazines in the checkout line?

[ChaimMoskowitz]

is it an imposition to ask a supermarket to cover the magazines in the checkout line?

Yes.

[yitrap]

Sorry that won't fly. "Give them fuel to hate"? If they hate, they'll hate, if they don't they won't. If a Jew has a legitimate religious sensivity on the line the last thing he had to worry about is whether he'll cause the non Jew to hate him. Totally irrelevant.
Besides, anyone who hates someone for asking him/her to move in a situation like this needs mental help.

But in such a case there is something wrong with asking - the only thing you are doing is giving them something to attack you on. In a case where you don't risk that I agree go ahead ask nicely if they say no sit down.

[yitrap]

is it an imposition to ask a supermarket to cover the magazines in the checkout line?

Yes.

+1, but who says you can't impose? Toronto got a few aisles in the local supermarket to create "Family friendly" aisles, they gained because people were happier to shop there and the yidden gained by not seeing pritzus, but it was done normally!

[aygart]

Maybe if he's holding up the place you have a point. However, it usually doesn't come to that.

When it makes the news it is because it came to more than simply asking. If you think that asking is what made the news you are delusional. I do think that enough people realize that some more religious people have a sensitivity to this that to simply ask an individual to help accommodate this sensitivity will usually not be a problem. I do not recall seeing people here say otherwise. On the other hand when they are bothered by someone who held up a plane or made a big fuss about it they are upset that this extra sensitivity was used to cause an imposition on others. That is when invariably you or others of your ilk start this whole rant about them being too liberal.

[Dan]

Because in those cases it isn't done normally.
Usually it's a guy who won't talk to the woman or deal with the situation like a human being. That person ought to be buying 2 seats.

[clear thinker]

Because in those cases it isn't done normally.
Usually it's a guy who won't talk to the woman or deal with the situation like a human being. That person ought to be buying 3 seats.

FTFY

[Aj3042]

When it makes the news it is because it came to more than simply asking. If you think that asking is what made the news you are delusional. I do think that enough people realize that some more religious people have a sensitivity to this that to simply ask an individual to help accommodate this sensitivity will usually not be a problem. I do not recall seeing people here say otherwise. On the other hand when they are bothered by someone who held up a plane or made a big fuss about it they are upset that this extra sensitivity was used to cause an imposition on others. That is when invariably you or others of your ilk start this whole rant about them being too liberal.

First off, you're wrong. The most recent one was involving some woman (from Canada I believe) who said she felt "denigrated" by his "contempt of women". It wa reported all over and the airline itself stated that it was a non issue.
Again, when it delays a flight, it's a different story. However, IMO most of the outrage over it isn't concerning that-it's about the matter itself, their "primitive work views".

[Dan]

First off, you're wrong. The most recent one was involving some woman (from Canada I believe) who said she felt "denigrated" by his "contempt of women".

Inevitably:

Because in those cases it isn't done normally.
Usually it's a guy who won't talk to the woman or deal with the situation like a human being. That person ought to be buying 2 seats.

Things that are done menchlich don't make the news.

[aygart]

First off, you're wrong. The most recent one was involving some woman (from Canada I believe) who said she felt "denigrated" by his "contempt of women". It wa reported all over and the airline itself stated that it was a non issue.
Again, when it delays a flight, it's a different story. However, IMO most of the outrage over it isn't concerning that-it's about the matter itself, their "primitive work views".

You are seeing things based on your own prejudices and not reality. I guess I cannot speak for every case but the vast majority of the time it is as I wrote including your denigrating comments about those who have an issue with him holding up the plane.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

First off, you're wrong. The most recent one was involving some woman (from Canada I believe) who said she felt "denigrated" by his "contempt of women". It wa reported all over and the airline itself stated that it was a non issue.
Again, when it delays a flight, it's a different story. However, IMO most of the outrage over it isn't concerning that-it's about the matter itself, their "primitive work views".

Not counting DDF the only time I hear about it is when a plane is being delayed.

[Aj3042]

Inevitably:Things that are done menchlich don't make the news.

Well according to the airlines press release there was nothing "not menchlich" about it. As I've pointed out, when someone acts not nicely it's a different story.

Not counting DDF the only time I hear about it is when a plane is being delayed.

Then time to log off and read the news more.

ETA: I'm signing off now so the bashing can begin in earnest (though it's probably no fun when I don't respond).

[Ephraimh]

Here's a question (and this is just out of an observational point of view, I'm not proclaiming in any way to be in that מדרגה, although I wish I was) but here goes --
How many people here criticizing the guy posting that paper, do not interact with their sister in laws -- which according to all פוסקים is not allowed since there's a קירבות?
I assume not even one.
Point being -- if you're the guy passing red lights at intersections all the time, you're not really the guy to be criticizing a safe driver.

[Achas Veachas]

Here's a question (and this is just out of an observational point of view, I'm not proclaiming in any way to be in that מדרגה, although I wish I was) but here goes --
How many people here criticizing the guy posting that paper, do not interact with their sister in laws -- which according to all פוסקים is not allowed since there's a קירבות?
I assume not even one.
Point being -- if you're the guy passing red lights at intersections all the time, you're not really the guy to be criticizing a safe driver.

Not to sound like I'm bragging (I don't think this is something worth bragging over) but in my family there is indeed minimal interaction between brothers and sisters in law, so I definitely hear where you are coming from.

As I said earlier, I have no problem if someone doesn't want to look at pictures of women dressed inappropriately (or even appropriately), the question is how will you deal with it. Will you just look away (or cover it up if it's really in the way) or make a whole shturem which is a) ineffective and b) counter productive.

Someone compared covering the images to slapping on a band-aid, well guess what? If you have a pimple the best way to deal with it is to ignore it or, if ignoring is too hard, cover it up. Picking at it will, not only not heal the pimple, it will make it worse and draw more unwanted attention...

[Ephraimh]

Not to sound like I'm bragging (I don't think this is something worth bragging over) but in my family there is indeed minimal interaction between brothers and sisters in law, so I definitely hear where you are coming from.

As I said earlier, I have no problem if someone doesn't want to look at pictures of women dressed inappropriately (or even appropriately), the question is how will you deal with it. Will you just look away (or cover it up if it's really in the way) or make a whole shturem which is a) ineffective and b) counter productive.

Someone compared covering the images to slapping on a band-aid, well guess what? If you have a pimple the best way to deal with it is to ignore it or, if ignoring is too hard, cover it up. Picking at it will, not only not heal the pimple, it will make it worse and draw more unwanted attention...

Good point, but you're like the most moderate criticizer here ️ the rest who I assume interact with their in laws more than even just דרך העברה which is according to everyone אסור are calling the guy a lunatic, and I'm like huh? Who exactly are you? It's just so ironic.

[Aaaron]

Good point, but you're like the most moderate criticizer here ️ the rest who I assume interact with their in laws more than even just דרך העברה which is according to everyone אסור are calling the guy a lunatic, and I'm like huh? Who exactly are you? It's just so ironic.

I like how you keep say "all poskim," "according to everyone," etc. when it's clearly not the case.  I have respectable rabbonim in my family that interact with their sister's-in-law, and I've seen many other rabbonim do it as well.  It's definitely not as black and white as you and people like AJ try to make halacha out to be.

[Ephraimh]

I like how you keep say "all poskim," "according to everyone," etc. when it's clearly not the case.  I have respectable rabbonim in my family that interact with their sister's-in-law, and I've seen many other rabbonim do it as well.  It's definitely not as black and white as you and people like AJ try to make halacha out to be.

Not really in debate mode right now but let's just say you're right, (not that you are...)
Do those "rabbonim" allow movies? Or even just a GOP primary debate with a woman moderator? I don't think so.
And do the criticizers here not watch movies? Do they not watch clips with woman in it? I would safely assume they do.
So they're not really the people to have an opinion in a topic they miserably fail.
They're like a tax cheater lecturing a crowd full of law abiding tax payers.

[aygart]

Do those "rabbonim" allow movies? Or even just a GOP primary debate with a woman moderator? I don't think so.
And do the criticizers here not watch movies? Do they not watch clips with woman in it? I would safely assume they do.

And I will say without assuming anything that you are dead wrong and were choshed biksherim which is certainly wrong according everyone.

Eta: I can't speak for all but can say with certainty that not all of the criticizers do