Author Topic: US Politics/2016 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread (Read 3858028 times)

ChaimMoskowitz · « **Reply #13820 on:** September 25, 2017, 09:44:37 AM »

Quote from: henche on September 25, 2017, 09:30:29 AM

We must have been reading different news. I thought this was about not standing for the national anthem?

You thought wrong. Now you want to answer the baseball cap question?

henche · « **Reply #13821 on:** September 25, 2017, 09:48:09 AM »

I have the same answer to all the questions.

I think it's disrespectful to the country to protest by disrespecting the na and flag, even if the purpose of your protest is that trump told you not to and you really just want to protest trump.

It's also infantile.

ChaimMoskowitz · « **Reply #13822 on:** September 25, 2017, 09:55:01 AM »

Quote from: henche on September 25, 2017, 09:48:09 AM

I have the same answer to all the questions.

So when a Jew does not remove his baseball cap during the NA it is because he wants to disrespect or protest the flag?

TimT · « **Reply #13823 on:** September 25, 2017, 09:56:19 AM »

Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on September 25, 2017, 09:55:01 AM

So when a Jew does not remove his baseball cap during the NA it is because he wants to disrespect or protest the flag?

If this is the first time he didn't, most certainly

ChaimMoskowitz · « **Reply #13824 on:** September 25, 2017, 09:59:04 AM »

Quote from: TimT on September 25, 2017, 09:56:19 AM

If this is the first time he didn't, most certainly

So if he does it all the time it is OK?

Can there be another logical reason he did not remove his cap?

henche · « **Reply #13825 on:** September 25, 2017, 10:02:47 AM »

Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on September 25, 2017, 09:55:01 AM

So when a Jew does not remove his baseball cap during the NA it is because he wants to disrespect or protest the flag?

Whatever follows from my rule above, is true. If you think that this statement follows, then you think it's true. I don't think it follows.

But instead of arguing about other cases, why not just talk to the actual case we're talking about?

ChaimMoskowitz · « **Reply #13826 on:** September 25, 2017, 10:08:30 AM »

Quote from: henche on September 25, 2017, 10:02:47 AM

Whatever follows from my rule above, is true. If you think that this statement follows, then you think it's true. I don't think it follows.

But instead of arguing about other cases, why not just talk to the actual case we're talking about?

We disagree about the actual case so why don't you answer the simple question?

henche · « **Reply #13827 on:** September 25, 2017, 10:09:33 AM »

I'm out

ChaimMoskowitz · « **Reply #13828 on:** September 25, 2017, 10:10:55 AM »

Quote from: henche on September 25, 2017, 10:09:33 AM

I'm out

I figured that once you seen where this was going. 😂

aygart · « **Reply #13829 on:** September 25, 2017, 10:21:34 AM »

Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on September 25, 2017, 10:10:55 AM

I figured that once you seen where this was going.

Why does he need need to answer a question just because you asked it so that you can divert from the discussion at hand to something irrelevant? Arguing the irrelevance of the question is equally legitimate.

ChaimMoskowitz · « **Reply #13830 on:** September 25, 2017, 10:31:20 AM »

Quote from: aygart on September 25, 2017, 10:21:34 AM

Why does he need need to answer a question just because you asked it so that you can divert from the discussion at hand to something irrelevant? Arguing the irrelevance of the question is equally legitimate.

The question is relevant and a real life situation I was in. I did not automatically assume he was disrespecting the flag because I knew something about him. Trumpsters on the other hand automatically assume the worse.

TimT · « **Reply #13831 on:** September 25, 2017, 10:38:38 AM »

Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on September 25, 2017, 10:31:20 AM

The question is relevant and a real life situation I was in. I did not automatically assume he was disrespecting the flag because I knew something about him.

So you thought he was protesting Trump ?

aygart · « **Reply #13832 on:** September 25, 2017, 10:45:03 AM »

Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on September 25, 2017, 10:31:20 AM

The question is relevant and a real life situation I was in. I did not automatically assume he was disrespecting the flag because I knew something about him. Trumpsters on the other hand automatically assume the worse.

So maybe have that discussion with him?

aygart · « **Reply #13833 on:** September 25, 2017, 10:54:25 AM »

Maybe this guy can talk some sense into you. (much more in that thread) all chnges once it has to do with Trump.....

Quote from: JTZ on August 28, 2016, 07:08:44 PM

A guess it depends what the flag means to you.

Quote from: JTZ on August 28, 2016, 09:11:00 PM

What if they rise out of respect for those that gave their lives to defend the freedom the flag represents to them?

Quote from: JTZ on August 28, 2016, 09:30:00 PM

1- I never said it was the only way
2 - Now you are getting into politics but yes the flag represents their sacrifice.

Quote from: JTZ on August 29, 2016, 01:44:17 AM

I should make a correction first. We are not only talking about those that died serving this country but all those that serve this country.

If we go to war or not has a lot to do with politics. The soldiers don't get a choice in those matters and are just serving their country no matter if you think the decision to go to war was right or wrong. Sitting during the anthem IMHO is disrespecting all of them even if you feel you can respect them in other ways.

During the Vietnam (major politics involved) war the flag was burned, returning soldiers were spat upon and called baby killers. Would you consider any of those behaviors disrespectful?

Quote from: JTZ on August 29, 2016, 02:11:17 PM

This is where you lose me. One is illegal and one isn't. Maybe use the analogy where I guy poisons his wife in her sleep and the other kills her with a baseball bat. They are both murder but the poisoning isn't as severe so it is not the same?

He has a right to sit or burn. No one is arguing that point. The point we are making it is a sign of disrespect. He can make his point without disrespecting the flag or those who serve defending it. When you disrespect the flag that tells me a lot about the individual.

Quote from: JTZ on August 29, 2016, 02:13:45 PM

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color,"

According to this logic we should no person of a minority standing up for the flag. I better not see any Jew standing up.
Good thing 99% of the country is messed up as this kid is in his thinking.

ChaimMoskowitz · « **Reply #13834 on:** September 25, 2017, 11:13:57 AM »

Quote from: aygart on September 25, 2017, 10:54:25 AM

Maybe this guy can talk some sense into you. (much more in that thread) all chnges once it has to do with Trump.....

Talk about not understanding basic facts. He was protesting the flag. He is on record saying that. This is about the whole league protesting the idiotic statements Trump made. If any of them are protesting the flag then yes it is totally disrespectful.

Here is the other thing Trump does not understand. Does he even know what is in the CBA? Can I player be fired for this? How about if the all say the Lords prayer before the game? Can a player be fired for not participating?

aygart · « **Reply #13835 on:** September 25, 2017, 11:22:34 AM »

Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on September 25, 2017, 11:13:57 AM

Talk about not understanding basic facts. He was protesting the flag. He is on record saying that. This is about the whole league protesting the idiotic statements Trump made. If any of them are protesting the flag then yes it is totally disrespectful.

Here is the other thing Trump does not understand. Does he even know what is in the CBA? Can I player be fired for this? How about if the all say the Lords prayer before the game? Can a player be fired for not participating?

Some of those quotes were from BEFORE he siad that. You had said that the flag and NA is not an appropriate medium of protest and by doing so they are disrespecting our soldiers. Do you disagree with that now that Trump said it? The ones he was talking about were the ones BEFORE he tweeted unless they were protesting his tweet in advance.

Or is your whole issue with this that he said to fire them?

ChaimMoskowitz · « **Reply #13836 on:** September 25, 2017, 11:31:46 AM »

Quote from: aygart on September 25, 2017, 11:22:34 AM

Or is your whole issue with this that he said to fire them?

That and calling them SOB's. They were both idiotic statements. This was a non-issue until he opened his big mouth for no reason at all. It was basically about one person and now look what we got. The whole league is united against him NOT THE FLAG!!! To try and constantly defend these stupid statements is mind boggling.

For the record the players can't be fired, fined or suspended for this. There is a reason they have a CBA.

Yehuda57 · « **Reply #13837 on:** September 25, 2017, 11:41:00 AM »

Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on September 25, 2017, 11:31:46 AM

That and calling them SOB's. They were both idiotic statements. This was a non-issue until he opened his big mouth for no reason at all. It was basically about one person and now look what we got. The whole league is united against him NOT THE FLAG!!! To try and constantly defend these stupid statements is mind boggling.

For the record the players can't be fired, fined or suspended for this. There is a reason they have a CBA.

Two things can be true simultaneously:

1) Trump was idiotic and disgraced the office of the presidency by calling sports players SOBs and calling for private citizens to be fired for exercising their freedoms.
2) Players kneeling and not showing up for the anthem is perceived as disrespectful to the flag and country, their intentions notwithstanding.

ChaimMoskowitz · « **Reply #13838 on:** September 25, 2017, 11:52:26 AM »

Hopefully we all agree on #1.

TimT · « **Reply #13839 on:** September 25, 2017, 12:00:07 PM »

Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on September 25, 2017, 11:13:57 AM

Talk about not understanding basic facts. He was protesting the flag. He is on record saying that. This is about the whole league protesting the idiotic statements Trump made. If any of them are protesting the flag then yes it is totally disrespectful.

His making a statement changes nothing. It's still the same disrespecting the flag.
If Trump calls on people to stop disrupting & protesting at soldiers funerals does it now become ok to protest there ?

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Author Topic: US Politics/2016 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread (Read 3858028 times)