US Politics/2016 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread

[ChaimMoskowitz]

That they retract when called out changes little.

So anytime a report is wrong that makes it #fakenews? Kelly said yesterday on FOX the WH did not converse with Bannon's lawyer. I don't look at it as #fakenews. He was just not aware of it, honest mistake.

[yuneeq]

A claim about the future is a prediction.

It's more than a prediction when you use your authority to say it as a matter of fact.
Is it a prediction to say a 5 year old will be 12 years old in 7 years?
That's what exactly what doofuses like Krugman do - make economic statements and passing it off as scientific fact.

[skyguy918]

That they retract when called out changes little. Sort of like when someone is arrested and put through the whole perp walk and negative reporting and is later exonerated.

You shot yourself in the foot with that example.

Retracting is the exoneration here. The exoneration changes a whole lot. Does it make it like the whole ordeal never happened? Of course not. But that's not nearly as bad as it would be without the exoneration - ie never retracting.

[skyguy918]

It's more than a prediction when you use your authority to say it as a matter of fact.
Is it a prediction to say a 5 year old will be 12 years old in 7 years?
That's what exactly what doofuses like Krugman do - make economic statements and passing it off as scientific fact.

Not that I agree with anything you said there, but even if it were true, what does it have to do with fake news?

[aygart]

You shot yourself in the foot with that example.

Retracting is the exoneration here. The exoneration changes a whole lot. Does it make it like the whole ordeal never happened? Of course not. But that's not nearly as bad as it would be without the exoneration - ie never retracting.

That is exactly the point in my example. If a the authorities do not properly vet before arresting then the future exoneration is not an answer.

[aygart]

How is #1 fake news? It was a prediction, and he got it wrong. If that were fake news, there'd be plenty of awards to hand out here on DDF.

Agreed, but Krugman deserves it anyhow because he is Krugman.

[skyguy918]

Agreed, but Krugman deserves it anyhow because he is Krugman.

Meh. If anything it highlights the childish vindictiveness of the Trump administration. Let the numbers speak for themselves, they're what make him look foolish here. Besides, I can hear someone changing their opinion of the media from the rest of the list. But nobody is changing their opinion if Krugman from his inclusion here.

[yuneeq]

Not that I agree with anything you said there, but even if it were true, what does it have to do with fake news?

Its fake news because they published this fools opinion as a matter of fact in the news.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

You have tens of thousands of reporters. How hard is it to find over zealous reporters making mistakes. #fakenews to me is reporting something you know is fake. Then to make it worse when you are called out on it instead of correcting it you double down. Sound like anyone we know? 

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Its fake news because they published this fools opinion as a matter of fact in the news.

The most powerful leader in the world does this all the time. Were is the outrage? Surely he carries more weight (no pun intended) they this individual.

[yuneeq]

The most powerful leader in the world does this all the time. Were is the outrage?

Do you make a distinction between a politician who will always lie to get votes and a journalist whose entire vale is the integrity of their reporting?

Surely he carries more weight (no pun intended) they this individual.

Not for me

[skyguy918]

That is exactly the point in my example. If a the authorities do not properly vet before arresting then the future exoneration is not an answer.

The point here is not that the retractions make the media look clean in these examples. The point is the contrast to the administration. And while you can argue that there's a difference between the media and the administration, that shouldn't absolve the administration from any obligation to integrity whatsoever. In fact, you can argue they have a greater obligation to integrity, as you can get your news from alternative sources if you want. You can't switch to another administration if you don't like it - at least not for another 4 years.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Not for me

Am I understanding you correctly that what the president says don't carry more weight than an individual reporter?

[aygart]

#fakenews to me is reporting something you didn't bother to figure out whether or not it is fake.

FTFY

[ChaimMoskowitz]

FTFY FTFM

You fixed that for your views not mine.

[aygart]

The point here is not that the retractions make the media look clean in these examples. The point is the contrast to the administration. And while you can argue that there's a difference between the media and the administration, that shouldn't absolve the administration from any obligation to integrity whatsoever. In fact, you can argue they have a greater obligation to integrity, as you can get your news from alternative sources if you want. You can't switch to another administration if you don't like it - at least not for another 4 years.

I have not defended the administration for its disregard for the truth, I aeven agree that they SHOULD have a greater obligation to tell the truth. That is unfortunately one of the shortcoming of democracy. Politicians lie to get votes and to advance themselves and their policies. Every single one.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

I have not defended the administration for its disregard for the truth, I aeven agree that they SHOULD have a greater obligation to tell the truth. That is unfortunately one of the shortcoming of democracy. Politicians lie to get votes and to advance themselves and their policies. Every single one.

There is a big difference between lies and slanting the numbers in your favor.

[skyguy918]

I have not defended the administration for its disregard for the truth, I aeven agree that they SHOULD have a greater obligation to tell the truth. That is unfortunately one of the shortcoming of democracy. Politicians lie to get votes and to advance themselves and their policies. Every single one.

You're making a false equivalency. No one has come close to this group. Also, the media is supposed to be the check against those lies, and they're fulfilling that role here too. The difference is that Trump has sought to nullify that check by seeking to invalidate all media that's critical of him.

[aygart]

You fixed that for your views not mine.

Okay. I have an expectation that when a reputable news source reports something and its editors allow it to be published it should have a higher journalistic standard than Infowars. There is an expectation I have that they vetted their information and checked to make sure it is true. Some of the ones he mentions are not even that. They simply didn't bother to check dates on the emails they were looking at to see if they were reporting the truth or not, didn't bother to find out if something just didn't get into the picture because a door was blocking it, or even deliberately misled with how they represented pictures.. That is called disregard for true reporting.

[aygart]

There is a big difference between lies and slanting the numbers in your favor.

So you are of the opinion that other politicians only slanted numbers in their favor and didn't say outright lies?