Author Topic: US Politics/2016 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread (Read 3850613 times)

aygart · « **Reply #1680 on:** August 03, 2016, 11:41:06 AM »

Quote from: Baruch on August 03, 2016, 11:33:18 AM

When it comes to foreign policy that is almost irrelevant.

True, but foreign policy is one place where I am most scared of Hillary. Just look at the disaster going on now in the Mid-East from what was finally stabilizing after Bush. That will affect me much more that Putin in the Crimea. Here is a place where I agree with what Trump is saying-we need to be much tougher on radical Islam. Does that mean that I agree with every single point-absolutely not-but Hillary's head in the sand pandering to muslims has only made things worse.

skyguy918 · « **Reply #1681 on:** August 03, 2016, 11:43:54 AM »

Quote from: aygart on August 03, 2016, 11:36:53 AM

I refer you to this post for reaasons why I think it is more swallowing the narrative than some others. Click on the link.

That doesn't show anything. My point to you is that you can't really know the exact mix of influences that lead a person to a particular opinion. Your collection of quotes does little to prove it. More importantly, it shouldn't matter where those influences are from - you argue the matter at hand. And when I look at some of the substance you actually respond with, I feel it's a mixed bag, with plenty responses that make it seem like you're fully in the tank for Trump, reason be damned.

aygart · « **Reply #1682 on:** August 03, 2016, 11:45:45 AM »

Quote from: Baruch on August 03, 2016, 11:30:37 AM

I believe Trump is a con artist. I've known that 10 years before he entered politics. So when you listen to a guy who you know to be a fraud, you cherry pick what he says to figure out what he really believes.

(Just as we both have known that HRC was a fraud since Bill's first term. BTW, her recent lie about the FBI director saying that she didn't lie to the American public, is a Trump level lie.)

con-artist and fraud does not translate to bigot. They are both con-artists and frauds. In ways Hillary s worse in that respect as well since she is playing a money for influence game or at the very least leveraging her influence to enrich herself even if it is not changing policies. SHe has the liberal media and the Dems behind her to the extent that they will defend her no matter what. That is much more dangerous than Trump who will not have them defending him.

zale · « **Reply #1683 on:** August 03, 2016, 11:46:03 AM »

Quote from: Baruch on August 03, 2016, 10:15:06 AM

He said ISLAM hates America. With your parable would you mind if he said JUDIASM - not Jews - hates America. You would be frightened. If your gonna accuse me of watching the liberal media - which I don't. I may as well tell you to stop listening to Limbaugh and Hannity, and start thinking for yourself.

FWIW, I also believe that ISLAM hates America. Sure there are a few followers of Islam here and there that accept American/Western culture, but the vast majority of Islam considers the West to be evil. So yes, Islam does hate America. There are actual polls that show this.

That said, this is something that a politician needs to be politically correct about. You can't change the minds of billions of people, and calling out "Islam" for their hate does not bring world peace any closer, and serves to alienate Westerners as well. Rather than stating "Muslim ban", he could have stated that he would ban people from known countries where ISIS operates. The fact that he says whatever childish thought comes to his mind really does make him unfit to serve this country.

ExGingi · « **Reply #1684 on:** August 03, 2016, 11:47:39 AM »

Quote from: aygart on August 03, 2016, 10:48:49 AM

Love the Wiki JJ

+1
Just add some Herring and Russian Roulette (with a debate as to how many blanks Trump has in there) and you've summed it all up perfectly.

aygart · « **Reply #1685 on:** August 03, 2016, 11:48:38 AM »

Quote from: skyguy918 on August 03, 2016, 11:43:54 AM

That doesn't show anything. My point to you is that you can't really know the exact mix of influences that lead a person to a particular opinion. Your collection of quotes does little to prove it. More importantly, it shouldn't matter where those influences are from - you argue the matter at hand. And when I look at some of the substance you actually respond with, I feel it's a mixed bag, with plenty responses that make it seem like you're fully in the tank for Trump, reason be damned.

The problem was that there was no matter at hand. Until today those were the extent of his posts. What substance was there to discuss? I am sure there there are cases where my distaste for Hillary is influencing me to defend things I otherwise would not. I try but am still human.

aygart · « **Reply #1686 on:** August 03, 2016, 11:51:33 AM »

Quote from: zale on August 03, 2016, 11:46:03 AM

FWIW, I also believe that ISLAM hates America. Sure there are a few followers of Islam here and there that accept American/Western culture, but the vast majority of Islam considers the West to be evil. So yes, Islam does hate America. There are actual polls that show this.

That said, this is something that a politician needs to be politically correct about. You can't change the minds of billions of people, and calling out "Islam" for their hate does not bring world peace any closer, and serves to alienate Westerners as well. Rather than stating "Muslim ban", he could have stated that he would ban people from known countries where ISIS operates. The fact that he says whatever childish thought comes to his mind really does make him unfit to serve this country.

In that clip he was immediately asked if he means that it is something in the religion and answer that the reporter should look into that. Stupid wording but I understood that to mean at the time (when I was hoping he would lose the primaries) that "I couldn't care less whether or not it has to do with the religion or the people practicing it" and that what matters are those practicing it and what they are doing is in the name of that religion and we need to defend ourselves against it.

Sport · « **Reply #1687 on:** August 03, 2016, 12:05:24 PM »

Quote from: aygart on August 03, 2016, 11:22:57 AM

As I have said many times it their NARRATIVE that you are somehow picking up. Maybe it is your distaste for his personality or something else, but you are cherry piccking the worst possible view of him.

You obviously dont follow the liberal media. Their narritive is a lot more drastic than his.
"Trumps presidency is the biggest national threat we face right now"
Or
"Trumps candidacy is a by product of the republican party feigning to be anti- education, now they actaully have a candidate who is proud to be uneducated"

aygart · « **Reply #1688 on:** August 03, 2016, 12:06:21 PM »

Quote from: Sport on August 03, 2016, 12:05:24 PM

You obviously dont follow the liberal media. Their narritive is a lot more drastic than his.
"Trumps presidency is the biggest national threat we face right now"
Or
"Trumps candidacy is a by product of the republican party feigning to be anti- education, now they actaully have a candidate who is proud to be uneducated"

fine-I give in.

Baruch · « **Reply #1689 on:** August 03, 2016, 12:07:25 PM »

Normally calling a politician insane and immoral etc. is not an argument with substance. Regarding Trump it is.
There is a real argument to be made that he is truly unstable.

Sport · « **Reply #1690 on:** August 03, 2016, 12:09:34 PM »

Quote from: aygart on August 03, 2016, 12:06:21 PM

fine-I give in.

I listen to that stuff just to see how biased they can be. But I have to say they do it in such a more sophisticated and intellectual way than right wing media.

aygart · « **Reply #1691 on:** August 03, 2016, 12:11:51 PM »

Quote from: Baruch on August 03, 2016, 12:07:25 PM

Normally calling a politician insane and immoral etc. is not an argument with substance. Regarding Trump it is.
There is a real argument to be made that he is truly unstable.

https://vid.me/arDX
The way John Oliver describes the bad narcissism as being unable to empathize with grieving families made me think of Benghazi

ExGingi · « **Reply #1692 on:** August 03, 2016, 12:39:37 PM »

Quote from: Sport on August 03, 2016, 12:09:34 PM

I listen to that stuff just to see how biased they can be. But I have to say they do it in such a more sophisticated and intellectual way than right wing media.

+1

Moshe123 · « **Reply #1693 on:** August 03, 2016, 12:41:49 PM »

Quote from: Baruch on August 03, 2016, 10:58:41 AM

+1

+1

yuneeq · « **Reply #1694 on:** August 03, 2016, 12:46:00 PM »

Quote from: Sport on August 03, 2016, 12:09:34 PM

I listen to that stuff just to see how biased they can be. But I have to say they do it in such a more sophisticated and intellectual way than right wing media.

The MSM controls the narrative, and they control what is considered intelligent and what's not.
Media definitely has the power to form people's opinions on right and wrong.

Eg. The more they pump out constant news about LGBT rights, the more the left sounds intelligent for fighting for those rights.
Anyone against their positions is a racist/bigot/sexist/LGBT-phobic/hatred-filled idiot that deserves to burned at the stake.

aygart · « **Reply #1695 on:** August 03, 2016, 12:46:08 PM »

Quote from: Baruch on August 03, 2016, 10:58:41 AM

+1

Quote from: Moshe123 on August 03, 2016, 12:41:49 PM

+1

Do we agree on something....

Sport · « **Reply #1696 on:** August 03, 2016, 01:00:48 PM »

Quote from: yuneeq on August 03, 2016, 12:46:00 PM

The MSM controls the narrative, and they control what is considered intelligent and what's not.
Media definitely has the power to form people's opinions on right and wrong.

Eg. The more they pump out constant news about LGBT rights, the more the left sounds intelligent for fighting for those rights.
Anyone against their positions is a racist/bigot/sexist/LGBT-phobic/hatred-filled idiot that deserves to burned at the stake.

The right wing media controlls our impression of who controls what is consodered intellectual.