US Politics/2016 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread

[Sammy82]

What brought Iran to the table in the first place?

How about $500mil in cash and who knows what else that we didnt discover yet?

[ChaimMoskowitz]

what happened with NK

You are joking I hope. Sanctions stopped them from getting the bomb?

[Boruch999]

How about $500mil in cash and who knows what else that we didnt discover yet?

The cash was given to them after they signed the deal.  They came to negotiate because they were collapsing under sanctions.

[gingyguy]

You are joking I hope. Sanctions stopped them from getting the bomb?

absolutely not . but do  you not see anything else happening with NK that are unquestionably because of sanctions?
which questions your premise that sanctions dont work

[gingyguy]

How about $500mil in cash and who knows what else that we didnt discover yet?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">You want us to rob the Iranian treasury?! That&#39;s insane! Crazy! Suicidal! <br><br>... We&#39;re in. <a href="https://t.co/CWbRj7S1Ak">https://t.co/CWbRj7S1Ak</a></p>&mdash; The Mossad (@TheMossadIL) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheMossadIL/status/993786069219987457?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 8, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[gingyguy]

im not sure what i did wrong but i m not sure how to do it

[ChaimMoskowitz]

absolutely not . but do  you not see anything else happening with NK that are unquestionably because of sanctions?

"absolutely not" to which part? Joking or sanctions stopped them from getting the bomb?

[gingyguy]

"absolutely not" to which part? Joking or sanctions stopped them from getting the bomb?

well really both  they obviuosly have the bomb but than again are they not at the table now? are relations not  better ? is the korean war not officially over? is pompeo not on the plane  home right now with the 3 Us citizens that were in there jail for a while ? and that is clearly because of sanctions

which means strong sanctions work and weak ones do not

[Boruch999]

You are joking I hope. Sanctions stopped them from getting the bomb?

Sanctions are used as leverage to extract concessions.

So you don't want to have an honest discussion?
I am sure they felt is was a good deal for them, so that is why they did it. Maybe sanctions was a part of it but I don't know that.
Do you want to answer my question now?

I'd love to have an honest discussion.  We just seem to have very different ideas of what is involved in an honest discussion.

Iran was happily involved in their nuclear weapons program.  Why did they come negotiate with the West?  Because they were looking for a way to have the sanctions lifted and came prepared to offer concessions.  The negotiations were grossly mismanaged by the West and they accepted concessions that don't achieve their stated goal.

It will be difficult to bring sanctions back up to the level they were when they brought Iran to the table, but trying to is better than burying our heads in the sand and trusting Iran not to develop nuclear weapons, which is what the Iran Deal effectively does.

[Boruch999]

"absolutely not" to which part? Joking or sanctions stopped them from getting the bomb?

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/09/trump-secretary-of-state-pompeo-heading-back-from-north-korea-with-3-released-prisoners.html

Why now?  Sudden, unexplained change of heart?

[ChaimMoskowitz]

well really both  they obviuosly have the bomb but than again are they not at the table now? are relations not  better ? is the korean war not officially over? is pompeo not on the plane  home right now with the 3 Us citizens that were in there jail for a while ?

Unlike the other poster we can have a honest discussion since you understand sanctions did not ever stop anyone from getting the bomb. Sanctions will not stop Iran from getting the bomb.

Yes to all your questions.

Things with NK are looking positive but we have seen this picture before. Before we claim victory lets wait and see how it ends.

[gingyguy]

Unlike the other poster we can have a honest discussion since you understand sanctions did not ever stop anyone from getting the bomb. Sanctions will not stop Iran from getting the bomb.

Yes to all your questions.

Things with NK are looking positive but we have seen this picture before. Before we claim victory lets wait and see how it ends.

wasnt quite a claim of victory . just that we are definitely seeing some results from strong sanctions with NK . if we apply that to iran we can also see some results that will turn out better than a awful deal. i never understood why a awful deal is better than no deal. no deal means sanctions  awful deal means that they have the upper hand because they can deny inspectors access and there is nothing we can do about it

[ChaimMoskowitz]

wasnt quite a claim of victory . just that we are definitely seeing some results from strong sanctions with NK . if we apply that to iran we can also see some results that will turn out better than a awful deal. i never understood why a awful deal is better than no deal. no deal means sanctions  awful deal means that they have the upper hand because they can deny inspectors access and there is nothing we can do about it

We have had strong sanctions in place with NK for many years. They now have the bomb. Would you say any deal with them where they don't give up the bomb is a bad deal?

[yesitsme]

tums anybody?

[yesitsme]

Unlike the other poster we can have a honest discussion since you understand sanctions did not ever stop anyone from getting the bomb. Sanctions will not stop Iran from getting the bomb.

Yes to all your questions.

Things with NK are looking positive but we have seen this picture before. Before we claim victory lets wait and see how it ends.

Whats a crane worth without a crane operator? That's what Iran sanctions with the previous administration was like.

[aygart]

So all we have to do is put sanctions in place and then they wont be able to get the bomb?

This question shows that you are not serious about the conversation.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

This question shows that you are not serious about the conversation.

What it shows is sanctions never stopped anyone from getting the bomb. You want to have a serious discussion then please explain how to stop Iran from getting the bomb short of a war?

[a mirrer]

We have had strong sanctions in place with NK for many years. They now have the bomb. Would you say any deal with them where they don't give up the bomb is a bad deal?

no, even a deal with a N bomb can be a good deal (including with Iran),
however whatever the deal covers should be ironclad with rigid and surprise inspections, as opposed to the JCPOA which gives them 24 days for inspections on military sites.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

no, even a deal with a N bomb can be a good deal (including with Iran),
however whatever the deal covers should be ironclad with rigid and surprise inspections, as opposed to the JCPOA which gives them 24 days for inspections on military sites.

Am I understanding you correctly that you would be OK with Iran having the bomb as long as we had ironclad inspections?

[aygart]

What it shows is sanctions never stopped anyone from getting the bomb. You want to have a serious discussion then please explain how to stop Iran from getting the bomb short of a war?

Sanctions don't prevent a bomb directly but they can create an environment in which a deal can happen. Within this deal no better deal can happen and it doesn't prevent the bomb anyhow.