US Politics/2016 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread

[avromie7]

Unions don't constitute government involvement.

You would be correct if the government didn't do everything it can to protect the unions ( up until this week, even forcing people who don't want to join to pay)

[yesitsme]

Although I personally favour government programs over privatisation for that which concerns the public’s interest, this does often lead to a lack of regard for expense. NASA will have spent around $35 billion to develop the SLS, and will launch it for half a billion each time. SpaceX isn’t even worth $20 billion, but have already built a similarly powerful rocket, the Falcon Heavy, and likely did that with under a $2 billion. Subsequent launches will be $90 million - a huge saving over that of the SLS. 

The shuttle program cost $57,090 per kilogram to launch a payload into space. SpaceX’s next rocket, the BFR, will cost roughly $47 per kilogram. That’s about 0.082% the cost. Pretty nuts huh?

Link

[avromie7]

Although I personally favour government programs over privatisation for that which concerns the public’s interest, this does often lead to a lack of regard for expense. NASA will have spent around $35 billion to develop the SLS, and will launch it for half a billion each time. SpaceX isn’t even worth $20 billion, but have already built a similarly powerful rocket, the Falcon Heavy, and likely did that with under a $2 billion. Subsequent launches will be $90 million - a huge saving over that of the SLS. 

The shuttle program cost $57,090 per kilogram to launch a payload into space. SpaceX’s next rocket, the BFR, will cost roughly $47 per kilogram. That’s about 0.082% the cost. Pretty nuts huh?
Link

What is it that you like about government programs over private?

[ChaimMoskowitz]

My point with the link is that the free market helps the poor better than government involvement.

You are trying to justify sweatshops by saying the alternative is worse.

[avromie7]

You are trying to justify sweatshops by saying the alternative is worse.

I'm saying sweatshops are terrible, but banning them is worse.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

I'm saying sweatshops are terrible, but banning them is worse.

You are justifying them and don't even know it.

[Boruch999]

You are justifying them and don't even know it.

False.

He is justifying not banning them because he asserts that banning them causes worse things than sweatshops do.  I don't know if that's true but accusing him of justifying sweatshops is slander.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

False.

He is justifying not banning them because he asserts that banning them causes worse things than sweatshops do.  I don't know if that's true but accusing him of justifying sweatshops is slander.

Try and spin it anyway you want.
At work I had this Muslimn that claimed he was against terrorism. He would say a terrorist attack was wrong but... I stop him right there and said STFU!!! No way was I going to listen to him try and justify it.

[Boruch999]

Try and spin it anyway you want.
At work I had this Muslimn that claimed he was against terrorism. He would say a terrorist attack was wrong but... I stop him right there and said STFU!!! No way was I going to listen to him try and justify it.

If you can't address what I said other than calling it spin, you are incapable of an intellectually honest discussion.  If you can but are unwilling, that is worse.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

If you can't address what I said other than calling it spin, you are incapable of an intellectually honest discussion.  If you can but are unwilling, that is worse.

What do you want me to address? If you believe sweatshops should exist because you claim the alternative is worse to me you are justifying them.
Maybe I should become a PIMP. Round up all the homeless girls dying on the streets and pimp them out. Better than dying, right?

[avromie7]

Try and spin it anyway you want.
At work I had this Muslimn that claimed he was against terrorism. He would say a terrorist attack was wrong but... I stop him right there and said STFU!!! No way was I going to listen to him try and justify it.

The last I checked, no one made a conscious decision to get hurt or killed in a terror attack, sweatshops on the other hand...

You clearly don't want to help solve problems, you just want to do what makes you feel good and makes you feel like you're doing "something".

This is the biggest issue with the leftist ideology, they just want to "do something" that makes them feel like they're helping fix the world's problems even if in reality they're making things worse, as long as they're "doing something".

[Boruch999]

What do you want me to address? If you believe sweatshops should exist because you claim the alternative is worse to me you are justifying them.
Maybe I should become a PIMP. Round up all the homeless girls dying on the streets and pimp them out. Better than dying, right?

I clearly made a distinction between "believing sweatshops should exist" and believing that banning them is counter productive.  If you would like to argue that that distinction is trivial or otherwise flawed that is a legitimate argument.  To completely ignore that distinction and just say spin is stupid at best, trollism at worst.  I'll make another distinction.  Declining to ban is not the same as endorsing.

Your example is flawed.  If banning pimps would lead to all the homeless girls dying, then a very strong argument can be made against banning pimps.  That does not mean everyone making that argument should become a pimp.

[avromie7]

What do you want me to address? If you believe sweatshops should exist because you claim the alternative is worse to me you are justifying them.
Maybe I should become a PIMP. Round up all the homeless girls dying on the streets and pimp them out. Better than dying, right?

I have a better idea, open a sweatshop for them to work in, so they don't feel the need to pimp themselves out.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

I clearly made a distinction between "believing sweatshops should exist" and believing that banning them is counter productive. 

You don't think they should exist but you don't want to ban them. Your position is that terrible things are ok if you feel the alternative is worse.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

This is the biggest issue with the leftist ideology, they just want to "do something" that makes them feel like they're helping fix the world's problems even if in reality they're making things worse, as long as they're "doing something".

Who is promoting leftist ideology? Banning sweatshops is a human rights ideology something you have shown over and over not to care about.

[avromie7]

You don't think they should exist but you don't want to ban them. Your position is that terrible things are ok if you feel the alternative is worse.

Do you disagree with that position? Why would you ban something thereby condemning people to a worse predicament? Why wouldn't you want to leave open the best available option they have?

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Do you believe slavery was justified since the alternative at the time was worse?
@avromie7
@Boruch999

[avromie7]

Who is promoting leftist ideology? Banning sweatshops is a human rights ideology something you have shown over and over not to care about.

You and all the other leftists are promoting an ideology that doesn't want to do good, you just want to do things that make you fell good regardless of the repercussions.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Do you disagree with that position? Why would you ban something thereby condemning people to a worse predicament? Why wouldn't you want to leave open the best available option they have?

So concentration camps should be kept open if the alternative is you are going to die?

[avromie7]

Do you believe slavery was justified since the alternative at the time was worse?
@avromie7
@Boruch999

I don't have an opinion on it, because I haven't looked into it.