US Politics/2016 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread

[yuneeq]

This is just to funny. Numerous reports of hate crimes being up and most here claim it is not true.

Hate crimes statistics have never been considered useful proof of anything by anyone.
Google it.

Edit: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2006/report-fbi-hate-crime-statistics-vastly-understate-problem

[JTZ]

Hate crimes statistics have never been considered useful proof of anything by anyone.

So when someone posts stats about hate crimes against Jews those stats are meaningless?

[yuneeq]

So when someone posts stats about hate crimes against Jews those stats are meaningless?

Yep. I honestly don't care what the exact stats are, I know they are way higher than 24 incidents, like thousands of times more common, and it doesn't take an idiot to figure that out. No one here thinks that the stats make a difference, it's life and we deal with it because no one else give a crap unless its to push an agenda.

[JTZ]

So how do you know if things are getting better or worse? Does it even matter?

[Freddie]

If this is true then why do the majority of the hate groups support Trump? Do you consider him part of the left?

I don't understand your argument. There are anti-Semites on the Left and Right.

What I said was that the Left has coddled their anti-Semites. I stand by that.

[JTZ]

I don't understand your argument. There are anti-Semites on the Left and Right.

What I said was that the Left has coddled their anti-Semites. I stand by that.

My argument is the left coddles their anti-Semites would it seem logical if I was anti-Semite I would prefer the left over the right?

[yuneeq]

So how do you know if things are getting better or worse? Does it even matter?

It's hard to tell, but it's always been bad, though I wouldn't consider it terrible by my standards of what I'm used to.
The only way to tell is by the how common the big incidents are happening- ie. not someone getting called a dirty jew - for some people its their way of saying good morning. Swastikas, vandalism targeting Jews or shuls, rallies saying Jews should be wiped into the sea, etc.

[Freddie]

Yep. I honestly don't care what the exact stats are, I know they are way higher than 24 incidents, like thousands of times more common, and it doesn't take an idiot to figure that out. No one here thinks that the stats make a difference, it's life and we deal with it because no one else give a crap unless its to push an agenda.

BTW a little off topic but I have been all over the world (as many folks here have) and I think I have ONLY experienced open anti-Semitism in New York. I don't know what is in people's hearts but the only times I have experienced open hatred for being Jewish has always been in NY. For whatever it's worth, this has happened regardless of who is president or which party controls congress or even who the mayor is.

[Freddie]

My argument is the left coddles their anti-Semites would it seem logical if I was anti-Semite I would prefer the left over the right?

I don't think they pick their politics based on where they can do more Jew-hating. Even anti-Semites aren't "one issue voters."

[yuneeq]

BTW a little off topic but I have been all over the world (as many folks here have) and I think I have ONLY experienced open anti-Semitism in New York. I don't know what is in people's hearts but the only times I have experienced open hatred for being Jewish has always been in NY. For whatever it's worth, this has happened regardless of who is president or which party controls congress or even who the mayor is.

You trying to say that the president doesn't have a briefcase with a built-in mind control machine?

[JTZ]

BTW a little off topic but I have been all over the world (as many folks here have) and I think I have ONLY experienced open anti-Semitism in New York. I don't know what is in people's hearts but the only times I have experienced open hatred for being Jewish has always been in NY. For whatever it's worth, this has happened regardless of who is president or which party controls congress or even who the mayor is.

This is exactly why you have to rely on stats.

There is only one time I can ever remember getting a dirty look from a Jew. It was when I held the door open for a women pushing a stroller. The look on the husbands face was like I just did something terrible to his wife. This was in NYC. 

[yuneeq]

This is exactly why you have to rely on stats.

Stupidity.
The stats are only from voluntary reports and are severely underreported by their own admission.
It's like deciding the election after 1% of 1 state has counted votes.

[JTZ]

The stats are only from voluntary reports and are severely underreported by their own admission.
It's like deciding the election after 1% of 1 state has counted votes.

So when a gay person is tied to a stake and beaten to death that is a voluntary report?

[Freddie]

So when a gay person is tied to a stake and beaten to death that is a voluntary report?

No, but what percentage of hate crimes are self-reported? Is this statistic even tracked?

[yuneeq]

So when a gay person is tied to a stake and beaten to death that is a voluntary report?

The police have to voluntarily report hate crimes to the FBI, and they have no incentive to do so.
It's tedious so it's almost all hate crimes are not reported to the FBI as such.

That does not mean that hate crime does not exist much, it just means that the data we are using to track it is worse than useless because it is deceiving.

[JTZ]

No, but what percentage of hate crimes are self-reported? Is this statistic even tracked?

IIRC the FBI stats are based on what law enforcement determines is a hate crime. If it is not reported then they can't make that determination.

[JTZ]

The police have to voluntarily report hate crimes to the FBI, and they have no incentive to do so.

I thought if they participate in the program they report everything, no?

[yuneeq]

I thought if they participate in the program they report everything, no?

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-fbi-hate-crime-stats-are-misleading-2012-12

"It's very hard to get much that's useful out of these numbers," said Mark Potok, a senior fellow at the Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks hate groups."

"These reports of so few hate crimes obviously ring a little false. In Mississippi only one hate crime was reported for all of 2011, the SPLC's Mark Potok pointed out."

[JTZ]

While it's clear that precincts with limited resources may under-report hate crimes, the FBI's data do offer some insight into overall hate crime trends in the United States.

The overall number of reported hate crimes dropped by 30 percent between 1996 and 2011, with those targeting blacks dropping by 43 percent during those years.

[Super Speed]

BTW a little off topic but I have been all over the world (as many folks here have) and I think I have ONLY experienced open anti-Semitism in New York. I don't know what is in people's hearts but the only times I have experienced open hatred for being Jewish has always been in NY. For whatever it's worth, this has happened regardless of who is president or which party controls congress or even who the mayor is.

Duh they knew Trump would be president.