Author Topic: bargaining for esrog  (Read 15044 times)

Offline lunatic

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Re: bargaining for esrog
« Reply #60 on: September 30, 2015, 10:59:35 PM »

Ah, so selling esrogim wasn't a real job for you. That's fine.
For some, it is.
Don't cry for them, just treat them fairly.
I think taking advantage of the fact that once Yom Tov starts their merchandise becomes worthless is wrong.
Should we be nice to amex and chase as well

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: bargaining for esrog
« Reply #61 on: September 30, 2015, 11:01:08 PM »
Should we be nice to amex and chase as well

+1. There's a world of a difference between Walmart and heimishe guy selling esrogim to supplement his income. If you noticed a price mistake, would you alert him, or slyly grab it and run?

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: bargaining for esrog
« Reply #62 on: September 30, 2015, 11:02:35 PM »
And one thing that's not so cool is that word on the street is that if you try and undercut the market, no one will sell you esrogim anymore
That's a rumor regarding wholesalers?

Offline henche

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Re: bargaining for esrog
« Reply #63 on: September 30, 2015, 11:12:05 PM »
And one thing that's not so cool is that word on the street is that if you try and undercut the market, no one will sell you esrogim anymore

Right.  So anticompetitive behavior would mean that the price is not "what the market will bear."

Also, people who come erev yontiff and lowball is part of the market.

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: bargaining for esrog
« Reply #64 on: September 30, 2015, 11:23:36 PM »

Also, people who come erev yontiff and lowball is part of the market.

So is shoplifting.

I know, not the same,  but,

I was just bringing out the point.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2015, 11:27:34 PM by Cheesecake »

Offline Ergel

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Re: bargaining for esrog
« Reply #65 on: September 30, 2015, 11:27:11 PM »
Ah, so selling esrogim wasn't a real job.
For some, it is.
Don't cry for them, just treat them fairly.
I think taking advantage of the fact that once Yom Tov starts their merchandise becomes worthless is wrong.
No it was not. I did it in high school and college to make some cash.
I agree 100% that they should be treated fairly.
They all discount erev y"t. It's part of the fair market. Don't think there is anything wrong with looking to get a deal erev y"t. Although you definitely won't end up with the best schorah, if you have a budget that you are keeping to (say $60) you very well may do better on erev y"t than earlier
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: bargaining for esrog
« Reply #66 on: September 30, 2015, 11:29:25 PM »
No it was not. I did it in high school and college to make some cash.
I agree 100% that they should be treated fairly.
They all discount erev y"t. It's part of the fair market. Don't think there is anything wrong with looking to get a deal erev y"t. Although you definitely won't end up with the best schorah, if you have a budget that you are keeping to (say $60) you very well may do better on erev y"t than earlier
At $60 for leftovers, the seller is not doing too badly.
At $20...

Offline henche

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Re: bargaining for esrog
« Reply #67 on: September 30, 2015, 11:30:18 PM »
So is shoplifting.

I know, not the same,  but,

I'm not following.  You think that charging what people will be willing to pay is ok, but paying what people will sell for is like shoplifting?


Offline Cheesecake

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Re: bargaining for esrog
« Reply #68 on: September 30, 2015, 11:37:14 PM »
I'm not following.  You think that charging what people will be willing to pay is ok, but paying what people will sell for is like shoplifting?
It's taking advantage of his vulnerable position having goods which will soon be worthless.

If the mochrim were artificially inflating the prices to an unreasonable price, that would also be wrong, but based on what I know about the market, that's not what's happening (at least not on the retail end - I don't know about wholesale).

I think they're pretty much selling for what they need to to make a normal profit for the amount of work they do.

Offline henche

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Re: bargaining for esrog
« Reply #69 on: September 30, 2015, 11:38:51 PM »

I think taking advantage of the fact that once Yom Tov starts their merchandise becomes worthless is wrong.

Worse than taking advantage of the fact that I have no choice but to buy an esrog?

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: bargaining for esrog
« Reply #70 on: September 30, 2015, 11:40:08 PM »
Worse than taking advantage of the fact that I have no choice but to buy an esrog?
You can have mine Matanah Al Menas Lehachzir.

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: bargaining for esrog
« Reply #71 on: September 30, 2015, 11:43:12 PM »
Also, I thought I already made the point that I don't think that under the circumstances they're marking it up in a greedy way.

Offline henche

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Re: bargaining for esrog
« Reply #72 on: September 30, 2015, 11:44:18 PM »
Also, I thought I already made the point that I don't think that under the circumstances they're marking it up in a greedy way.

And I think they are.

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: bargaining for esrog
« Reply #73 on: September 30, 2015, 11:45:45 PM »
And I think they are.
Based on what, aside from your desire to pay less?

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: bargaining for esrog
« Reply #74 on: September 30, 2015, 11:52:15 PM »
And I still maintain that aside from the yashrus aspect, there's a chibas hamitzvah issue here, especially since you're risking getting shvache minim.

Offline yesitsme

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Re: bargaining for esrog
« Reply #75 on: October 01, 2015, 12:07:39 AM »
spend more for the mitzva, don't be charged more for the mitzvd,
Ex:
DO same socher 2 prices one nicer than the other, get the nicer one.
DON"T go to a expensive socher and brag I spent $75 for my lulev & $230 for my esrog.
unless if you're looking to give Tzedoko in a nice way.

for I spent $40 on my lulav my uncle spent $1 his was much nicer then mine who had a bigger hiddur mitzva?
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Offline thaber

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Re: bargaining for esrog
« Reply #76 on: October 01, 2015, 12:07:58 AM »
There are rules in Choshen mishpat of usury and such. it works with percentages. and if people are making more, be it esrogim for sukkos or fish for shabbos (see MB beginning of Hilchos Shabbos) then the mochrim are wrong.
Yes mochrim work hard. and yes our tribe is notorious for negotiating every penny of profit out of a seller. But there are a lot of people who have trouble paying for arba minim, and feel halachic or social pressure to do so. The most expensive place in the USA to buy an esrog is lakewood, which is probably also the poorest per capita of bnai Torah. and they shouldn't be taken advantage of either.
So I propose otzar beis din every year. Socialism is good for some industries :)

Offline thaber

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Re: bargaining for esrog
« Reply #77 on: October 01, 2015, 12:08:40 AM »
spend more for the mitzva, don't be charged more for the mitzvd,
Ex:
DO same socher 2 prices one nicer than the other, get the nicer one.
DON"T go to a expensive socher and brag I spent $75 for my lulev & $230 for my esrog.
unless if you're looking to give Tzedoko in a nice way.

for I spent $40 on my lulav my uncle spent $1 his was much nicer then mine who had a bigger hiddur mitzva?
lashon of chazal is esrog naeh, not yakar

Offline yesitsme

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Re: bargaining for esrog
« Reply #78 on: October 01, 2015, 12:14:21 AM »
lashon of chazal is esrog naeh, not yakar
Thats exactly my point
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Offline aygart

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Re: bargaining for esrog
« Reply #79 on: October 01, 2015, 12:18:09 AM »
The most expensive place in the USA to buy an esrog is lakewood
Whichwould lead one to believe that the mochrim are taking advantage of the higher demand for nice minim. Why then would it be wrong for the customer to do the same when he is hte one with the advantage?
Feelings don't care about your facts