Yehudi>Medaber>Chai>Tzomeach>Domem?

[David Smith]

IIRC, it's not befeirush at all.

Anyone who is familiar with Lashon Chazal knows that להחיות (in this context, not להחיות מתים ), normally means to support financially.

IIRC, the Bais Yosef is מדחיק, that להחיות, means להציל הנפש, in order to answer a סתירה in the mishnayos.

If anyone has time to research, then please CMIIW. But this is the way I remember it.

I think he was coming to explain how the Rambam said women come first for tzedakah, even though the mishna said ish kodem le'ishah l'hachyos. BTW did you understand the במה דברים אמורים בזמן שהם שוין to be going on both mishnayos or just the last one?

[luckyluck]

Who said anything about killing yourself 

Your said "give his life up". I don't mean necessarily killing yourself, what about giving your only water bottle in the desert?

[Dan]

Your said "give his life up". I don't mean necessarily killing yourself, what about giving your only water bottle in the desert?

Only a sick man would drink the last sip of water in the desert before his wife or kids.
Not everything in Judaism is halacha. Without the proper hergesh you're missing something fundamental.

[luckyluck]

Only a sick man would drink the last sip of water in the desert before his wife or kids.
Not everything in Judaism is halacha. Without the proper hergesh you're missing something fundamental.

I completely understand where you're coming from and this probably belongs to another discussion, however numerous Poskim have discussed this topic.

As an example:

שו"ת "ציץ אליעזר", חלק ט, כח
בשו"ת רדב"ז (סימן תרכ"ז) העלה, דאין לו לאדם להכניס עצמו בספק סכנת
נפשות כדי להציל חברו. ואם מחמיר על עצמו בכך, הרי זה חסיד שוטה, דספיקא
דידיה עדיף מוודאי דחבריה. ע"ש.
ועולה בדעתי, דמזה תוצאות ללמוד גם על כגון חולה שהרופאים אומרים שנשקפת
לו ספק סכנה לחייו, ונתנו לו תרופה לזה, והחולה הזה השיג בקושי התרופה
הזאת, והחולה שרק ספק סכנה לו, מסתפק אם יש לו לתת התרופה שהשיג לחולה
השני שנתון בסכנה ודאית. ולפי דברי הרדב"ז יוצא, שלא רק שאינו מחויב
בכך, אלא גם זאת שאין לו (רשות) להחמיר בזה, שחומרתו היא קלות ראש בחייו
העצמיים, ודינא הוא, דאפילו ספק, חייו שלו קודמים לחיי חברו.

[churnbabychurn]

The depth and breath of Torah discourse over the last few thousand years is like statistics. If you have a preconceived notion, you will certainly find sources to quote that support your opinion. And your detractors will find sources that prove that you're wrong.

And this is why orthodox Jews subject themselves to the leadership of godelei yisroel in each generation. There is no way a layman should or would be able to navigate life's thorny questions otherwise.
We don't go with preconceived notions absorbed from doubtful sources.

[yitzf]

The depth and breath of Torah discourse over the last few thousand years is like statistics. If you have a preconceived notion, you will certainly find sources to quote that support your opinion. And your detractors will find sources that prove that you're wrong.

Not really, that's why we have a mesorah.

Just like in halachah you can't just pick any posek that lived in the last few thousand years, so to in hashkafah we have a mesorah.

Unfortunately many of us were never given over the mesorah, but that's like someone who never learned halacha on depth, if you have a question you ask a posek, not go to a bookcase and do eeny meeny miny moe. The same is in hashkafa, you ask someone who was mekabel the mesrah.

[zevmetz]

All "lomdim" before you post anything pls. Make sure that it is stated as a P'SAK DIN Halacha in SHULCHAN ARUCH.

[David Smith]

All "lomdim" before you post anything pls. Make sure that it is stated as a P'SAK DIN Halacha in SHULCHAN ARUCH.

Which post(s) are you referring to?

[churnbabychurn]

All "lomdim" before you post anything pls. Make sure that it is stated as a P'SAK DIN Halacha in SHULCHAN ARUCH.

Why, since when is this a halacha forum?

[Achas Veachas]

Regarding precedence between man and woman; there are four cases discussed: giving charity, saving their life, redeeming them from capture, and redeeming them from sexual slavery. The common theme to the answer to all these questions seems to be that it depends who needs it more, and who stands to lose the most.
Therefore, a woman would take precedence for charity, being as a man is more capable of providing for himself without your help than a woman is.
A woman would be redeemed from regular captivity first, being as she is more susceptible to sexual abuse than a man.
 A man would take precedence if they are both captured to be used as sex slaves, being as homosexual rape is considered worse than the standard method.
 A man would also take precedence take precedence if both their lives are endangered, assuming all things to be the same otherwise.
This isn't because men are better or superior, it's based on the basic purpose of life in Judaism. Life isn't an end unto itself, it is a means to an end. We're on this world to accomplish a mission, after which we return to the spiritual world where we came from. Death isn't a tragedy in of itself, the tragedy is the lost opportunity to continue accomplishing what we need to get done here. Therefore, whoever has to get more done (or who's history would deem them likely to get more done, this is why a more spiritual person would take precedence over a more base and worldly person) has more to lose by dying.
A man has more commandments than a woman does, he therefore has more that he needs to accomplish. A woman is closer to completing her mission, she therefore has leaves less undone should she return to her Creator now.
This doesn't mean a man is better than a woman, it just means that they have different ways G-d intended them to accomplish their purpose on this world. (This is my simplistic understanding of the matter.)

I appreciate the explanation but I still haven't seen a source to imply that we Pasken that way (regarding saving lives) today. As others mentioned, you can find Gemaros to go along with any argument you want. The only way to say "this is the opinion of Orthodox Judaism" is if it's Paskened Lahalachah.

[grodnoking]

Dan, I think its time you hire a Rabbi for this operation! Have the "kollel" guys sponser points for it to be worth his while

[Dan]

Dan, I think its time you hire a Rabbi for this operation! Have the "kollel" guys sponser points for it to be worth his while

SBS is a dayan.

[grodnoking]

SBS is a dayan.

Needs to be a moderator...

[luckyluck]

I appreciate the explanation but I still haven't seen a source to imply that we Pasken that way (regarding saving lives) today. As others mentioned, you can find Gemaros to go along with any argument you want. The only way to say "this is the opinion of Orthodox Judaism" is if it's Paskened Lahalachah.

שו"ע יו"ד רנ"ב ס"ח בהג"ה: ואם שניהם רוצים לטבוע בנהר הצלת האיש קודם

[elit]

I like this thread because I didn't get involved.

same here. I am actually impressing myself with my self control.

Shmuly boteach explains (90% of people are already discrediting this) that Jews are the chosen people to spread awareness of hashem and be a living example of how to live.

That's what superior means that we are chosen to be examples.

(Thread was dying had to through some more wood in)

There are some really great opinions stated in this thread.

You didn't have to go to boteach for that. ..

[David Smith]

Hey! What happened to this one! It was smoking hot earlier! How'd it die so abruptly? (Although such is the nature of popcorn...)

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Hey! What happened to this one! It was smoking hot earlier! How'd it die so abruptly? (Although such is the nature of popcorn...)

Because you avoided this question. 

So all things being equal the mans life takes precedence? This is because he has more of his mission to complete? If the women had more of her mission to complete then would her life would take precedence with everything else being equal?

You have nothing to apologize for. You explanation was enough.

[David Smith]

So all things being equal the mans life takes precedence? This is because he has more of his mission to complete? If the women had more of her mission to complete then would her life would take precedence with everything else being equal?

You have nothing to apologize for. You explanation was enough.

That's for G-d to know, i don't know how any human can claim to know that. I don't know what my mission is in this world, i just know what guidelines G-d gave me to fulfill it. As a general rule, this is the instructions we were given; that a man takes precedence. If this case is an exception, G-d is more than capable of saving her. (The same question could be asked if you should provide medical attention to a child who will grow up to be a mass murderer. There is no way if knowing the future, that's for G-d in heaven alone. We just follow His dictums. He doesn't require us to accomplish, just to do our best.)

[ChaimMoskowitz]

That's for G-d to know, i don't know how any human can claim to know that.

Good enough for me.

[ShlockDoc]

That's for G-d to know

That's a copout IMHO.  This entire forum is full of posts of people claiming to know God's will.