Yehudi>Medaber>Chai>Tzomeach>Domem?

[ChaimMoskowitz]

...I am a descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob...

How does one know for sure they are a descendant?

[churnbabychurn]

I didn't grew up in NY. Just a regular Midwest Yeshivish school. And while no one told me directly that Jews were better than non Jews or non religious people or people less religious it's definitely implied and given across that way in many areas.  And in some ways I see why it's easy to cross that line. Telling someone they are the chosen people and teaching kids that there is only one right way etc can easily lead a person to believing they are in fact better than others that are different.

It sure sounds like you honestly don't believe the being a shomer shabbos makes you a better person.
What is yiddishkeit all about? Is it not about being right, about being good, or just, about attaining perfection? About personal growth?
Is it all just another way of life within the great American culture?

#mo is bankrupt.

[sky121]

It sure sounds like you honestly don't believe the being a shomer shabbos makes you a better person.
What is yiddishkeit all about? Is it not about being right, about being good, or just, about attaining perfection? About personal growth?
Is it all just another way of life within the great American culture?

#mo is bankrupt.

Honestly, being shomer shabbos doesn't guarantee you're a better person. The same way being irreligious doesn't guarantee you're a lesser person.


Being a good Jew is a lot more than being shomer shabbos and keeping kosher etc.


Meanwhile I don't know what about what I said gave you the impression that I don't think being shomer shabbas is important.
I just don't believe I'm a better person THAN MY NEIGHBOR because I'm shomer Shabbos.  Maybe a better person than I would be myself if I wasn't... But that's something else.

[David Smith]

Seems like CM is one of the only religious people with a backbone here.

[David Smith]

Honestly, being shomer shabbos doesn't guarantee you're a better person. The same way being irreligious doesn't guarantee you're a lesser person.


Being a good Jew is a lot more than being shomer shabbos and keeping kosher etc.


Meanwhile I don't know what about what I said gave you the impression that I don't think being shomer shabbas is important.
I just don't believe I'm a better person THAN MY NEIGHBOR because I'm shomer Shabbos.  Maybe a better person than I would be myself if I wasn't... But that's something else.

Do you believe your religious practices improve who you are as a person and ultimately are part of fulfilling your destiny?

[churnbabychurn]

Seems like CM is one of the only religious people with a backbone here.

-1
Obviously we could have just stated the obvious. Jews have a neshama. But that's no fun...

[sky121]

Do you believe your religious practices improve who you are as a person and ultimately are part of fulfilling your destiny?

I believe religious practices have THE POTENTIAL to improve ones self as well as their life as a whole.


And personally for myself I think they do. Some practices more than others. And some moments more than others. Etc etc etc. But that's all more on a personal level. And something I work on and try to be aware of on a day to day basis.  It all has the potential to add to my life.  I do believe that.


But again I'm wondering what I said that makes you think anything otherwise.

[MosheD]

"ונפש השנית בישראל היא חלק אלקה ממעל ממש"

[churnbabychurn]

I believe religious practices have THE POTENTIAL to improve ones self as well as their life as a whole.


And personally for myself I think they do. Some practices more than others. And some moments more than others. Etc etc etc. But that's all more on a personal level. And something I work on and try to be aware of on a day to day basis.  It all has the potential to add to my life.  I do believe that.


But again I'm wondering what I said that makes you think anything otherwise.

An improved person is a better person. Ergo you could wind up being better than your neighbor!
Oh, how impolite and not politically correct this is.

[good sam]

How does one know for sure they are a descendant?

Because the Jews have always taken ancestry and genealogy pretty seriously (other than Reform in recent years), you can be sure that all Jews are descendants.

[good sam]

And I think a more likely reason for kids going off the derech is the attitude you just exhibited.

Do you disagree with anything I wrote?

[sky121]

An improved person is a better person. Ergo you could wind up being better than your neighbor!
Oh, how impolite and not politically correct this is.

So because you COULD wind up being better than your neighbor therefore all shomer shabbos people are better than non shomer shabbos?
Is that what you're saying?

[Aaaron]

Do you disagree with anything I wrote?

Yes.  Everything you wrote.

Again, in esoteric terms, we're just better.  We don't have the same cravings, materialism, desires, lack of self control, etc.  Some of the more knowledgeable posters can probably clarify better than I.

I don't believe it, so it doesn't really matter. 

ETA:  I'm of the belief that chance of birth into a specific religion does absolutely nothing for you.  It's your personal choices, decisions, and actions that make you a good person.  Inb4 I'm called a self-hating Jew.

[MosheD]

I really don't want to get involved, but find myself getting pulled in...last post on this topic.
As a nation, I beleive, we are "chosen" and have an elevated status, as discussed in Tanya and other sources. As mentioned earlier, it does mean more responsability, so after one has this elevated status, if he sins etc, he is lower. It goes both ways.

On a personal level, it is NEVER healthy to compare (although natural). Every person is created with their own personal qualities and tests, and can never judge himself against his friend. While observing the Torah DOES make you a better person vis a vis yourself, not anyone else.

As to the original picture, it depends what message is being conveyed. Is it we are the chosen nation or you are automatically better then that Goy next door...

This is not as clear as if like it to be, but my understanding

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Because the Jews have always taken ancestry and genealogy pretty seriously (other than Reform in recent years), you can be sure that all Jews are descendants.

So in the history of time it would only take one instance of a non-Jewish women thought to be Jewish to give birth to make this not so.

[sky121]

I really don't want to get involved, but find myself getting pulled in...last post on this topic.
As a nation, I beleive, we are "chosen" and have an elevated status, as discussed in Tanya and other sources. As mentioned earlier, it does mean more responsability, so after one has this elevated status, if he sins etc, he is lower. It goes both ways.

On a personal level, it is NEVER healthy to compare (although natural). Every person is created with their own personal qualities and tests, and can never judge himself against his friend. While observing the Torah DOES make you a better person vis a vis yourself, not anyone else.

As to the original picture, it depends what message is being conveyed. Is it we are the chosen nation or you are automatically better then that Goy next door...

This is not as clear as if like it to be, but my understanding

Well said.

[sky121]

So in the history of time it would only take one instance of a non-Jewish women thought to be Jewish to give birth to make this not so.

It's happened. There are stories of people finding out they aren't Jewish when they thought they were.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

As to the original picture, it depends what message is being conveyed. Is it we are the chosen nation or you are automatically better then that Goy next door...

It is a tier system in the picture. Is the goy the chosen nation over animals? Lets be honest here.

[MosheD]

It is a tier system in the picture. Is the goy the chosen nation over animals? Lets be honest here.

Of course. I believe all humans are created in G-ds image...

[ChaimMoskowitz]

It's happened. There are stories of people finding out they aren't Jewish when they thought they were.

That was the only point I was trying to make. Depending when this type of event happened you are talking about a massive amount of people.