The Tamar Epstein Saga

[lunatic]

Anyway,  welcome back mesh,  hope you are here to stay

[meshugener]

Anyway,  welcome back mesh,  hope you are here to stay

No, I'm just here for the holidays.

I was always wondering if people want me here (not that I care too much). I guess I still have a following.

[Hidden]

No, I'm just here for the holidays.

I was always wondering if people want me here (not that I care too much). I guess I still have a following.

Didn't you reside in the random posts thread?

[meshugener]

Didn't you reside in the random posts thread?

That was a very long time ago. I left as soon as all the normal people invaded it.

[Yitz]

That was a very long time ago. I left as soon as all the normal people invaded it.

Stay

[churnbabychurn]

Yeah, galos sucks.
The jerks have a free out of jail card.

Couldn't have said it more eloquently

[meshugener]

Stay

No, it's an addiction.

[sharkky]

It's not so by design.
That's why we have the concept of kofeh.
But since we can't legally do that in the current environment, it is time to find another solution to bring back halacha to its original design.

So halacha is "fair" because of kofeh?    are u aware how limited the application of kofeh is?

[SayWhat]

It is not a solution. If AF had no shul to daven while refusing a get and still didn't give, a cherem won't help either.

I missed the ruling from a Bais Din that paskend that AF must give a Get.

[aygart]

I missed the ruling from a Bais Din that paskend that AF must give a Get.

Where did anyone say there was?

[meshugener]

I missed the ruling from a Bais Din that paskend that AF must give a Get.

Thank you.

I clearly take no sides in this particular saga, since I don't know all the facts, and even if I knew - I am not qualified to have an opinion on halachic matters.

Leave me out of this garbage.
I have no clear knowledge of the facts of this story nor am I qualified to take a position on it.

[meshugener]

So halacha is "fair" because of kofeh?    are u aware how limited the application of kofeh is?

No, I'm not aware of its limitations. And that doesn't say there aren't any. I'm just one big fat am ha'aretz.

So, are you implying that since (in your words) kofeh is a limited tool, halacha is not fair either?

Well, I'm not interested in taking a position on the fairness of halacha. It's beyond my scope.

You're more than welcome to post your opinion - it's a free forum within a free country.

[sharkky]

No, I'm not aware of its limitations. And that doesn't say there aren't any. I'm just one big fat am ha'aretz.

So, are you implying that since (in your words) kofeh is a limited tool, halacha is not fair either?

Well, I'm not interested in taking a position on the fairness of halacha. It's beyond my scope.

You're more than welcome to post your opinion - it's a free forum within a free country.

i hav no complaints against halacha     And im also "just one big fat am ha'aretz" but i believe that almost all the cases of witholding gittin are done in situations where kofin doesn't apply     So i disagree with ur implication that if we werent in golus all would be fine and dandy

[meshugener]

i hav no complaints against halacha     And im also "just one big fat am ha'aretz" but i believe that almost all the cases of witholding gittin are done in situations where kofin doesn't apply     So i disagree with ur implication that if we werent in golus all would be fine and dandy

So you're basically saying halacha is not fair.

The current situation is by all accounts not fair. And if you say this is how halacha wants it to be, your're admitting that halacha is unfair.
Well, that's not something I said or will say.

[sharkky]

So you're basically saying halacha is not fair.

The current situation is by all accounts not fair. And if you say this is how halacha wants it to be, your're admitting that halacha is unfair.
Well, that's not something I said or will say.

im not discussing the fairness of halacha (btw i believe it is fair)     Im just saying kofin wont solve what u perceive to be the unfairness with halachic marraige

[meshugener]

im not discussing the fairness of halacha (btw i believe it is fair)     Im just saying kofin wont solve what u perceive to be the unfairness with halachic marraige

Fair enough

[mordygross]

i hav no complaints against halacha     And im also "just one big fat am ha'aretz" but i believe that almost all the cases of witholding gittin are done in situations where kofin doesn't apply     So i disagree with ur implication that if we werent in golus all would be fine and dandy

Not really true, mishna kesuvos 7:9,10 lists mumim, some psychological in nature, some just based on the fact that he makes a life choice (like he becomes a tanner) that we  would use kofim.
Point is that the system is skewed only now because beis din lacks enforcement power.

[skyguy918]

Not really true, mishna kesuvos 7:9,10 lists mumim, some psychological in nature, some just based on the fact that he makes a life choice (like he becomes a tanner) that we  would use kofim.
Point is that the system is skewed only now because beis din lacks enforcement power.

That's exactly why it's limited, which is what he said. It doesn't stam apply to any husband that withholds a get. You want to claim that most agunos would be freed today if we could be kofeh? Go ahead, but you're gonna have a tough time illustrating that point.

[mordygross]

If the point was that it's not 100% equal, since the man can give get against her will, that's exactly why the chachomim established a kesubah- as a deterrent for divorce for no reason.

[meshugener]

If the point was that it's not 100% equal, since the man can give get against her will, that's exactly why the chachomim established a kesubah- as a deterrent for divorce for no reason.

Am I missing something?

The point was that in the event of a breakup of marriage, men have a clear advantage of controlling whether women can be freed.
And you're adding that chachomim established a kesubah- as a deterrent for divorce, which just an added encouragement for the husband not to grant a divorce.

Are you making it look more fair or just the opposite?