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הוי זהיר בגחלתם שלא תכוה, שנשיכתן נשיכת שועל ועקיצתן עקיצת עקרב, ולחישתן לחישת שרף, וכל דבריהם כגחלי אש

« Last edited by Baruch on March 30, 2016, 01:00:08 PM »

Author Topic: The Tamar Epstein Saga  (Read 285181 times)

Offline Ergel

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1320 on: January 21, 2016, 10:25:18 AM »
Which one is korach?
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline aygart

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1321 on: January 21, 2016, 10:30:10 AM »
Which one is korach?
Who says there can be only one?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1322 on: January 21, 2016, 10:35:52 AM »
Let's get real.

She is living with another man after convincing a therapist that he's crazy.
She is very much a part of her campaign to defame AF.
She went heter shopping by telling rabbis he's crazy.
She then got rabbis to sign that he's crazy in every aspect.

This is all in addition to the other wrongdoings that she has committed like fleeing BD,
paying to beat him up, fleeing the state, and etc.

Why are we still defending this lowlife?
I am not defending anyone and definitely not her. He made a statement that she went around yelling publicly how he is crazy and therefore her diary is fair game to be posted in public. He has not yet been able to show that she did this. True it is a central part of her supposed heter but that is not yelling in public. It would certainly have been in her best interest for the supposed heter to be a quiet as possible. I am only asking for a source for his claim.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline SayWhat

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1323 on: January 21, 2016, 10:45:33 AM »
I am not defending anyone and definitely not her. He made a statement that she went around yelling publicly how he is crazy and therefore her diary is fair game to be posted in public. He has not yet been able to show that she did this. True it is a central part of her supposed heter but that is not yelling in public. It would certainly have been in her best interest for the supposed heter to be a quiet as possible. I am only asking for a source for his claim.
By the fact that she made the situation a public discussion and got a heter based on her husband being mentally ill she is responsible for that accusation being in the public domain.

Offline SayWhat

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1324 on: January 21, 2016, 10:47:32 AM »
A shmooze from R Mendel Bodsky Rezav regarding those that are mezalzel the gedolim and what the proper response should be.
https://daistorah.wordpress.com/
Being that R Shternbach is a Gadol shouldn't R Bodsky handled this is a private manner as he says instead of being mezalzel a Gadol?

Offline aygart

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1325 on: January 21, 2016, 10:48:57 AM »
By the fact that she made the situation a public discussion and got a heter based on her husband being mentally ill she is responsible for that accusation being in the public domain.
With the same reasoning one can say that by him not giving her a get it is his fault. I don't see either one to be true. The ones who put everything into public domain are the bloggers who are using this as a tool for their personal agendas.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline AJK

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1326 on: January 21, 2016, 10:56:22 AM »
With the same reasoning one can say that by him not giving her a get it is his fault. I don't see either one to be true. The ones who put everything into public domain are the bloggers who are using this as a tool for their personal agendas.

Frankly, I'm not sure why you even bother.  He's been pretty clear that Rav Nota, among other rabbis, deliberately and knowingly relied on a purportedly bogus report as the basis for any heter, if there was one.

You may as well be debating with a hillbilly fisherman who swears up and down that he was abducted by aliens that night he had one too many.  There's just no way you'll get through. Aliens exist; he was abducted; and they're coming for you next.  The fisherman would swear to it.
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Offline aygart

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1327 on: January 21, 2016, 10:58:24 AM »
Frankly, I'm not sure why you even bother.  He's been pretty clear that Rav Nota, among other rabbis, deliberately and knowingly relied on a purportedly bogus report as the basis for any heter, if there was one.

You may as well be debating with a hillbilly fisherman who swears up and down that he was abducted by aliens that night he had one too many.  There's just no way you'll get through. Aliens exist; he was abducted; and they're coming for you next.  The fisherman would swear to it.
Unfortunately there are those who are all too happy to swallow the fisherman's narrative hook line and sinker.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1328 on: January 21, 2016, 10:59:24 AM »
Being that R Shternbach is a Gadol shouldn't R Bodsky handled this is a private manner as he says instead of being mezalzel a Gadol?
Where did he mention R Shternbuch or say that people should be moche against him?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1329 on: January 21, 2016, 11:00:10 AM »
 
@AJK,

The letter from R Notta himself (posted here) is pretty clear that he relied on R Sholom K entirely. Without knowing or meeting the couple.
These are also facts.

Offline aygart

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1330 on: January 21, 2016, 11:01:27 AM »

@AJK,

The letter from R Notta himself (posted here) is pretty clear that he relied on R Sholom K entirely. Without knowing or meeting the couple.
These are also facts.

Except that he is still standing by it.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline SayWhat

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1331 on: January 21, 2016, 11:10:34 AM »
Frankly, I'm not sure why you even bother.  He's been pretty clear that Rav Nota, among other rabbis, deliberately and knowingly relied on a purportedly bogus report as the basis for any heter, if there was one.

You may as well be debating with a hillbilly fisherman who swears up and down that he was abducted by aliens that night he had one too many.  There's just no way you'll get through. Aliens exist; he was abducted; and they're coming for you next.  The fisherman would swear to it.
I have never said that R Greenblatt knowingly relied on the false report.

Offline SayWhat

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1332 on: January 21, 2016, 11:15:21 AM »
With the same reasoning one can say that by him not giving her a get it is his fault. I don't see either one to be true. The ones who put everything into public domain are the bloggers who are using this as a tool for their personal agendas.
It amazing that everything is the bloggers fault - you liked it better when everything was swept under the rug?

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1333 on: January 21, 2016, 11:17:18 AM »
Except that he is still standing by it.
Therefore what?

Offline AJK

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1334 on: January 21, 2016, 11:17:52 AM »
I have never said that R Greenblatt knowingly relied on the false report.

Oh, no?

And that's where we'll agree to disagree.
Again, we don't know the details of what actually went down.
My understanding is that Rav Shlomo Miller doesn't think Rav Shmuel was involved with heter. So there's that. And we don't know what Rav nota did or believes. And if they made a taus bshogeg not sure that pasuls everything else they ever did

How is using a bogus psychologist report bshogeg?
Remember the argument is not whether the heter of mekach tois is relevant in this case but rather the facts to establish the heter were false.

Oh, I get it. You think Rabbis Greenblatt and Kaminetzky *knew* the report was bogus. And then used that allegedly false report to issue a heter, despite their knowledge of its apparent bogus provenance. Got it.

Thanks for clarifying.


Yeah, you didn't say the words "R Greenblatt knowingly relied on the false report" but that's proof of nothing. Your direct implication was inescapable.
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1335 on: January 21, 2016, 11:22:07 AM »

Offline Ergel

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1336 on: January 21, 2016, 11:22:15 AM »
Oh, no?

Yeah, you didn't say the words "R Greenblatt knowingly relied on the false report" but that's proof of nothing. Your direct implication was inescapable.
You should have been a lawyer.
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline SayWhat

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1337 on: January 21, 2016, 11:27:23 AM »
Oh, no?

Yeah, you didn't say the words "R Greenblatt knowingly relied on the false report" but that's proof of nothing. Your direct implication was inescapable.
First of all you had quotes from other posters, I don't take responsibility for what others post.

R Shalom knowingly peddled the heter based on false information

Offline aygart

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1338 on: January 21, 2016, 11:30:55 AM »
First of all you had quotes from other posters, I don't take responsibility for what others post.
Of course but the context matters.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Ergel

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1339 on: January 21, 2016, 11:36:24 AM »
First of all you had quotes from other posters, I don't take responsibility for what others post.
LOL
Quote
R Shalom knowingly peddled the heter based on false information
And you know this because?
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.