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הוי זהיר בגחלתם שלא תכוה, שנשיכתן נשיכת שועל ועקיצתן עקיצת עקרב, ולחישתן לחישת שרף, וכל דבריהם כגחלי אש

« Last edited by Baruch on March 30, 2016, 01:00:08 PM »

Author Topic: The Tamar Epstein Saga  (Read 154367 times)

Offline Work-for-ur-muny

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2015, 02:16:50 AM »
A friend posted this on Facebook. I thought it was apt.

Thankfully there are loopholes available to solve pressing issues in halacha.
Can't charge interest? Heter Iska.
Can't work the land on Shmita? Heter Mechira.
Can't carry on shabbos? Eiruv Chatzeiros.
Can't walk far on Shabbat? Eruv Tchumin.
Can't enforce a loan after Shmita? Pruzbol.
Can't own chametz on pesach? Mechirat Chametz (with a bonus Bitul),
Can't cook on Yom Tov for Shabbat? Eruv Tavshilin.
Promised to do something? Hatarat Nedarim.
First born that has to fast on erev pesach? Siyum.
Want to eat meat during the 9 days? Siyum.
A woman wont agree to divorce her husband? Heter Meya Rabonim.
A man wont give his wife a get? Sorry, there's nothing we can do. Halacha is Halacha.
Nonsense. And you know it.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2015, 06:24:44 AM »
A friend posted this on Facebook. I thought it was apt.

Thankfully there are loopholes available to solve pressing issues in halacha.
Can't charge interest? Heter Iska.
Can't work the land on Shmita? Heter Mechira.
Can't carry on shabbos? Eiruv Chatzeiros.
Can't walk far on Shabbat? Eruv Tchumin.
Can't enforce a loan after Shmita? Pruzbol.
Can't own chametz on pesach? Mechirat Chametz (with a bonus Bitul),
Can't cook on Yom Tov for Shabbat? Eruv Tavshilin.
Promised to do something? Hatarat Nedarim.
First born that has to fast on erev pesach? Siyum.
Want to eat meat during the 9 days? Siyum.
A woman wont agree to divorce her husband? Heter Meya Rabonim.
A man wont give his wife a get? Sorry, there's nothing we can do. Halacha is Halacha.

I wouldn't call these loopholes but, it a pretty accurate statement. Somethings are just impossible. Like eating chometz on pesach. Simply cant be done.

We can discuss what some MO perceive as the "unfairness" of the Torah in the other thread.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2015, 06:32:19 AM »
Here is an interesting letter from RMS
He refers to a kesav heter that others say doesn't exist..


Offline Dr Moose

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2015, 07:06:04 AM »


R Nota Greenblatt.
IINM he's considered one of the most knowledgeable in the area of gittin nowadays.

Hey there! I am using DansDeals Forums.

Offline good sam

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2015, 07:13:30 AM »
It seems that none of the rabbanim have an inherent problem with the svara of mekach taos.

How does that work? What did she "buy" that she can claim mekach taos?
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline a mirrer

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2015, 07:25:23 AM »
It seems that none of the rabbanim have an inherent problem with the svara of mekach taos.

How does that work? What did she "buy" that she can claim mekach taos?
a husband (in halacha marriage is a transaction)

Offline ShlockDoc

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2015, 07:31:18 AM »
I know that RCA rabbis are pushing their prenuptial agreement very hard. Some aren't marrying couples that don't sign. Has the more chareidi community embraced it as well?

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2015, 07:49:03 AM »
I know that RCA rabbis are pushing their prenuptial agreement very hard. Some aren't marrying couples that don't sign. Has the more chareidi community embraced it as well?
Non of our gedoley haposkim approve of the prenup. Until they do there is no such thing as a halachic prenup. It is simply an oxymoron.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2015, 07:50:26 AM »
It seems that none of the rabbanim have an inherent problem with the svara of mekach taos.

How does that work? What did she "buy" that she can claim mekach taos?
A woman marries only willfully.

Offline ShlockDoc

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2015, 08:08:28 AM »
Non of our gedoley haposkim approve of the prenup. Until they do there is no such thing as a halachic prenup. It is simply an oxymoron.

Interesting. What alternate approach is being pursued to help solve the problem of recalcitrant husbands?

Offline chaimmayer

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2015, 08:15:19 AM »
Rsk and rng are no gorens - not from a talmid Chacham perspective and not from a yeshivish Manhig perspective.  It'll be very interesting to see where this heads but so far they are being very careful to bash the היתר and not the מתיר.

Offline Malachi

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2015, 08:19:42 AM »
Non of our gedoley haposkim approve of the prenup. Until they do there is no such thing as a halachic prenup. It is simply an oxymoron.
why is it an oxy moron ?
Denny Crane

Offline bk73

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2015, 08:33:31 AM »
Reb nota Greenblatt is one of the biggest poskim in inyanei gittin and Reb shmuel kaminetsky is considered the gadol hador (or at least one of them) in america today. Even in the letter from Reb Ahron Feldman he would not bash them in any way. Those that bash them (mainly Eidenshon from dass torah blog )Idiots.

Offline ShlockDoc

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2015, 08:56:54 AM »
My Hebrew isn't amazing. Can someone tl;dr the two sides?  Am I right that some rabbonim are allowing a woman freed without a get using mekach taus and some are opposing? I can't figure out which rabbi in are allowing it and which are saying its a bad heter.

Offline yochiek93

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2015, 08:57:45 AM »
A friend posted this on Facebook. I thought it was apt.

Thankfully there are loopholes available to solve pressing issues in halacha.
Can't charge interest? Heter Iska.
Can't work the land on Shmita? Heter Mechira.
Can't carry on shabbos? Eiruv Chatzeiros.
Can't walk far on Shabbat? Eruv Tchumin.
Can't enforce a loan after Shmita? Pruzbol.
Can't own chametz on pesach? Mechirat Chametz (with a bonus Bitul),
Can't cook on Yom Tov for Shabbat? Eruv Tavshilin.
Promised to do something? Hatarat Nedarim.
First born that has to fast on erev pesach? Siyum.
Want to eat meat during the 9 days? Siyum.
A woman wont agree to divorce her husband? Heter Meya Rabonim.
A man wont give his wife a get? Sorry, there's nothing we can do. Halacha is Halacha.
Really