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הוי זהיר בגחלתם שלא תכוה, שנשיכתן נשיכת שועל ועקיצתן עקיצת עקרב, ולחישתן לחישת שרף, וכל דבריהם כגחלי אש

« Last edited by Baruch on March 30, 2016, 01:00:08 PM »

Author Topic: The Tamar Epstein Saga  (Read 276730 times)

Offline Baruch

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1560 on: March 29, 2016, 10:40:43 PM »
Actually some of us don't hold the "rabbis in question" in very high regard, neither as talmidei chachamim of note, nor as straight people.

Contrary to what you might have been taught in first grade, not every 70 year old with a long beard is a talmid chacham about whom you can't speak.

As I've said before, we're not talking about Rav Elyashiv here or anyone of (or even close to) his caliber. We're talking about American Roshei Yeshiva who some people regard highly, some people don't. So poof-there goes your argument.

PS As I've mentioned before I think RNG is not included in the above.
Thank you for stating clearly that your from Korach Va'adaso.

Offline AJK

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1561 on: March 29, 2016, 10:41:47 PM »
Actually some of us don't hold the "rabbis in question" in very high regard, neither as talmidei chachamim of note, nor as straight people.

Contrary to what you might have been taught in first grade, not every 70 year old with a long beard is a talmid chacham about whom you can't speak.

As I've said before, we're not talking about Rav Elyashiv here or anyone of (or even close to) his caliber. We're talking about American Roshei Yeshiva who some people regard highly, some people don't. So poof-there goes your argument.

LOL. Oiy, the shovel you're gonna need after 120, I tell you.

Now you're the final arbiter on all things Talmid Chachem related, huh?

Anyone who knows Rav Nota would disagree with your assessment.

(And, no, venom-spewing pseudonyms on the internet who purport to "know him" because of something they read on the internet is not "knowing" him.)
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline yesitsme83

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1562 on: March 29, 2016, 10:42:16 PM »
You haven't yet mentioned one fact not written one sentence like a mensch
Actually I have, I've been on this thread before. And my objective today was just to show how you pounce on provoke you think created new names instead of responding to arguments. You did that about 10 times and then you claim you meant something else.

Offline aygart

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1563 on: March 29, 2016, 10:44:35 PM »
Actually I have, I've been on this thread before. And my objective today was just to show how you pounce on provoke you think created new names instead of responding to arguments. You did that about 10 times and then you claim you meant something else.
Yes I do have a problem with people making new user names in order to insult.
Also from my recollection your previous posts were no better. That is why you made the new user name.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline yesitsme83

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1564 on: March 29, 2016, 10:46:00 PM »
Thank you for stating clearly that your from Korach Va'adaso.
Anytime. Actually if you guys would know anything you'd be aware of the what the Vilna Gaon says that in the times of Moshiach the leaders of the Jews will be from the Eiruv Rav.
Point being that just because someone has a following doesn't mean he deserves it.

But I wouldn't expect you to actually know anything like that because not only don't you work much you probably don't learn much either. Oh, did I just say something insulting? Refer back to your own post to see further examples of such talk.

Offline SayWhat

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1565 on: March 29, 2016, 10:48:03 PM »
No one here is defending the heter.
We're defending the honor of Talmidei Chachamim.
Your defending people that deserve no defense. When "Talmidei Chachamim" or "Gedolim" or whatever titles you want to give them act like thugs in every sense of the word they don't deserve a defense.

The Heter didn't happen by accident - to say I don't defend the Heter but I defend the "honor" of the ones that orchestrated this disaster is foolish and it is because of attitudes like that is the reason why after they were caught with their face stuck in the cookie jar they won't apologize for what they did. They have given the entire Klal the finger and all you can say is "kavod Talmidei Chachamin".

Offline yesitsme83

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1566 on: March 29, 2016, 10:49:14 PM »
Yes I do have a problem with people making new user names in order to insult.
Also from my recollection your previous posts were no better. That is why you made the new user name.
Yes it's one of your many problems.

Good night now folks! Don't let these reality checks on how normal people think affect your DDF derived self esteem! Got to go do productive things now (yes, those such things actually do exist).

@yuneeq, as you know, there are exceptions to every rule. It was a pleasure. Keep it up, don't let the mob bully you.

ETA: I see @saywhat is here. Go get em! ;D (and NO, I don't know him)

Offline AJK

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1567 on: March 29, 2016, 10:53:59 PM »
Your defending people that deserve no defense. When "Talmidei Chachamim" or "Gedolim" or whatever titles you want to give them act like thugs in every sense of the word they don't deserve a defense.

The Heter didn't happen by accident - to say I don't defend the Heter but I defend the "honor" of the ones that orchestrated this disaster is foolish and it is because of attitudes like that is the reason why after they were caught with their face stuck in the cookie jar they won't apologize for what they did. They have given the entire Klal the finger and all you can say is "kavod Talmidei Chachamin".


Between this confirmation of SayWhat's ill-fated position (and his dire need of a cosmic shovel to dig himself out of the hole in which he finds himself), yesitsme83's inglorious exit from stage left (same issue with the hole and need of shovel), Avrumi#1's "frolicking" deafening silence, and yuneeq's talking himself off a cliff,  I'm pretty happy all said and done.

My job here is done...

...for the time being.



« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 11:00:18 PM by AJK »
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Offline Sammy82

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1568 on: March 29, 2016, 10:54:33 PM »
Actually some of us don't hold the "rabbis in question" in very high regard, neither as talmidei chachamim of note, nor as straight people.

Contrary to what you might have been taught in first grade, not every 70 year old with a long beard is a talmid chacham about whom you can't speak.

As I've said before, we're not talking about Rav Elyashiv here or anyone of (or even close to) his caliber. We're talking about American Roshei Yeshiva who some people regard highly, some people don't. So poof-there goes your argument.

PS As I've mentioned before I think RNG is not included in the above.
I'm sorry, you've gone too far. I don't envy ur olam haba.
PS my recommendation is to ask mechila ASAP because some of the people ur talking about won't be with us much longer and then it will be a bigger busha to ask mechila.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1569 on: March 29, 2016, 10:55:28 PM »
No one here is defending the heter.
We're defending the honor of Talmidei Chachamim.

Good that you cleared that up.
There seems to be some sort of disconnect.

If someone says "your Rebbi messed up big time"
to which you respond "how dare you disrespect my Rebbi!?",

It comes off as defending your rebbi of the mistake.
When really it's simply, "yes, my Rebbi made a mistake, but that doesn't mean you can start disrespecting him."

That is fine and admirable with me, but its better to be clear.

Because some here are still not sure if their Rebbi made a mistake, and will attack anyone who says so.
I think that anyone who is affected by this mistake (and personally I think everyone is affected) should make it clear to the world that there was a mistake. That bitul kidushin is not something taken lightly.

Though that still doesn't absolve them from further attacks either.
Visibly Jewish

Offline aygart

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1570 on: March 29, 2016, 10:56:22 PM »
It is worse when someone is a jerk with a hineny muchan before
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Baruch

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1571 on: March 29, 2016, 10:57:54 PM »
Good that you cleared that up.
There seems to be some sort of disconnect.

If someone says "your Rebbi messed up big time"
to which you respond "how dare you disrespect my Rebbi!?",

It comes off as defending your rebbi of the mistake.
When really it's simply, "yes, my Rebbi made a mistake, but that doesn't mean you can start disrespecting him."

That is fine and admirable with me, but its better to be clear.

Because some here are still not sure if their Rebbi made a mistake, and will attack anyone who says so.
I think that anyone who is affected by this mistake (and personally I think everyone is affected) should make it clear to the world that there was a mistake. That bitul kidushin is not something taken lightly.

Though that still doesn't absolve them from further attacks either.
Is there anyone on this earth still defending the heter?

Offline David Smith

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1572 on: March 29, 2016, 10:59:46 PM »
Some people have serious, serious, serious issues. Like serious; serious, SERIOUS issues.
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Offline yuneeq

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1573 on: March 29, 2016, 11:00:39 PM »
Is there anyone on this earth still defending the heter?

Besides AJK?
I'm not sure.
Visibly Jewish

Offline AJK

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1574 on: March 29, 2016, 11:02:21 PM »
I'm sorry, you've gone too far. I don't envy ur olam haba.
PS my recommendation is to ask mechila ASAP because some of the people ur talking about won't be with us much longer and then it will be a bigger busha to ask mechila.

Unfortunately, such suggestion and criticism will fall on the deafest of ears, it seems.
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline yesitsme83

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1575 on: March 29, 2016, 11:04:20 PM »
So you've spent enough time on ddf to understand AJK's influence on ddf .
 
And enough time to actually get to know people on ddf
How observant of you. As I've stated, I know quite a bit about the people and goings on here. If I didn't, I wouldn't be as critical. In fact, I know you and AJK  ;D ;D ;D (though not personally)! But no more beans will be spilled tonight.
Sorry just had to come back on to note this when the irony of the situation struck me.

Offline Baruch

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1576 on: March 29, 2016, 11:04:38 PM »
Besides AJK?
I'm not sure.
AJK's not defending the heter.
Where did you see him defend the heter.
BTW, we don't either defend Adam and Chava eating from the eitz hadaas, or David for Batsheva. Nor Moshe for hitting the rock. Or the shevatim for selling Yosef.

Offline AJK

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1577 on: March 29, 2016, 11:07:02 PM »
How observant of you. As I've stated, I know quite a bit about the people and goings on here. If I didn't, I wouldn't be as critical. In fact, I know you and AJK  ;D ;D ;D (though not personally)! But no more beans will be spilled tonight.
Sorry just had to come back on to note this when the irony of the situation struck me.

Oh goodie, the beans are spilled now! You know me. ...just not personally.* So, basically, you know of me and perhaps my name. Kind of like... the entire rest of DDF.

Wow, truly unique, you are. Diamond in the rough.

*Kind of like you "know" Rav Nota is a phony? Kind of like that?
« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 11:14:13 PM by AJK »
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline yesitsme83

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1578 on: March 29, 2016, 11:14:06 PM »
Wow, you know me. ...But not personally.* So, basically, you're like the rest of DDF.

Wow, you're truly unique. And can speak with authority on all matters relating to DDF because... you've spent some time here.

*(Kind of like you "know" Rav Nota is a phony, eh?)

Actually I said RNG was fooled, that he isn't a phony.

And I know who you are, while most DDFers do not. 💡💡💡 (blinding flash of light there)
Because although anonymity may discredit my opinions, it doesn't discredit yours, right? Am I finally learning the rules? Please enlighten me, master!

Offline AJK

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1579 on: March 29, 2016, 11:18:29 PM »
Well, you knowing my name makes you downright special. (Even if it is perhaps a bit creepy.)

Pleasure to meet you. Wait, that's not right. It's not a pleasure at all. And no, I'm not lending you my shovel.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 11:21:40 PM by AJK »
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper