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הוי זהיר בגחלתם שלא תכוה, שנשיכתן נשיכת שועל ועקיצתן עקיצת עקרב, ולחישתן לחישת שרף, וכל דבריהם כגחלי אש

« Last edited by Baruch on March 30, 2016, 01:00:08 PM »

Author Topic: The Tamar Epstein Saga  (Read 285132 times)

Offline yochiek93

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #280 on: November 12, 2015, 03:46:01 PM »



but the Kaminetsky's aren't clean here.

What do you mean?

Offline Sammy82

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #281 on: November 12, 2015, 03:54:42 PM »
Or that said Rabbi wrote a secret letter and let the while world keep on thinking that he approved it. He still didn't release a public letter.

The harsh letter is completely unjustified, but the Kaminetsky's aren't clean here.

I rarely post on these type of chats (since I have nothing useful to add) but  after reading what you accused and wrote about a gadol, I have to speak up. Two things-
1. I doubt you know all of the details of this case (as I don't) or even most of them. Even if you are fully knowledgeable in this case, do you know when all of the specific details happened? Why do you think it's ok to accuse a person (no less a Gadol) of doing something when you don't know all of the details?
2. Even if you do know every detail, and you think you are 100% right, and the other person is wrong, and you feel a need to express that on the internet, who the hell do you think you are to refer to a ben torah (not to mention  one of the top gedolim and rosh yeshivas of our generation) like a bum on the street or worse? Kaminetsky? Really? Most people don't talk to their cleaning lady that.
I suggest that you edit or delete that comment before it gets locked.

Offline avromie7

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #282 on: November 12, 2015, 04:37:55 PM »

I rarely post on these type of chats (since I have nothing useful to add) but  after reading what you accused and wrote about a gadol, I have to speak up. Two things-
1. I doubt you know all of the details of this case (as I don't) or even most of them. Even if you are fully knowledgeable in this case, do you know when all of the specific details happened? Why do you think it's ok to accuse a person (no less a Gadol) of doing something when you don't know all of the details?
2. Even if you do know every detail, and you think you are 100% right, and the other person is wrong, and you feel a need to express that on the internet, who the hell do you think you are to refer to a ben torah (not to mention  one of the top gedolim and rosh yeshivas of our generation) like a bum on the street or worse? Kaminetsky? Really? Most people don't talk to their cleaning lady that.
I suggest that you edit or delete that comment before it gets locked.
You misread what he wrote, he was referring to multiple members of the kaminetsky family
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Moshe123

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #283 on: November 12, 2015, 04:39:30 PM »
You misread what he wrote, he was referring to multiple members of the kaminetsky family

Yup

Offline yochiek93

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #284 on: November 12, 2015, 04:41:28 PM »
You misread what he wrote, he was referring to multiple members of the kaminetsky family
They are all rabbi's he could've said that

Offline avromie7

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #285 on: November 12, 2015, 04:47:32 PM »
They are all rabbi's he could've said that
That doesn't mean he did anything wrong
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline yochiek93

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #286 on: November 12, 2015, 04:48:29 PM »
That doesn't mean he did anything wrong
Slightly disrespectful

Offline avromie7

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #287 on: November 12, 2015, 04:53:14 PM »
Slightly disrespectful
I would have written the same way if I were referring to my rebbi whom I greatly respect.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline yochiek93

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #288 on: November 12, 2015, 04:54:36 PM »
I would have written the same way if I were referring to my rebbi whom I greatly respect.
Wow our generation how low we are

Offline avromie7

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #289 on: November 12, 2015, 04:55:47 PM »
Wow our generation how low we are
I'm  not sure why you  are making such a big deal, that's the way normal people speak
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Sammy82

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #290 on: November 12, 2015, 05:10:43 PM »
You misread what he wrote, he was referring to multiple members of the kaminetsky family
It is still chuztpah and wrong, just to more people (both are chashuvah people). So now it is even worse.
Again, I almost never post in useless and pointless threads but when somebody accuses a gadol (or gedolim) of doing wrong, my emotions get the best of me and I have to make a macha'ah.
Just to clarify, I'm not saying that Moshe isn't right in his assessment of the situation. But even if 100% right, and somebody made a mistake (which every single person in history has done, aside from 4 people), there is no need to post your opposition publicly and/or be disrespectful.

Offline avromie7

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #291 on: November 12, 2015, 05:11:44 PM »
It is still chuztpah and wrong, just to more people (both are chashuvah people). So now it is even worse.
Again, I almost never post in useless and pointless threads but when somebody accuses a gadol (or gedolim) of doing wrong, my emotions get the best of me and I have to make a macha'ah.
Just to clarify, I'm not saying that Moshe isn't right in his assessment of the situation. But even if 100% right, and somebody made a mistake (which every single person in history has done, aside from 4 people), there is no need to post your opposition publicly and/or be disrespectful.

I'm  not sure why you  are making such a big deal, that's the way normal people speak
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Iz

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #292 on: November 12, 2015, 05:18:12 PM »
It is still chuztpah and wrong, just to more people (both are chashuvah people). So now it is even worse.
Again, I almost never post in useless and pointless threads but when somebody accuses a gadol (or gedolim) of doing wrong, my emotions get the best of me and I have to make a macha'ah.
Just to clarify, I'm not saying that Moshe isn't right in his assessment of the situation. But even if 100% right, and somebody made a mistake (which every single person in history has done, aside from 4 people), there is no need to post your opposition publicly and/or be disrespectful.
Who?

Offline Sammy82

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #293 on: November 12, 2015, 05:29:42 PM »
I'm  not sure why you  are making such a big deal, that's the way normal people speak
In this day and age, when people we are supposed to look up to (Presidents, professors, etc.) act like the schmoo's (spelling?!) on the street because we all have to be 'equal', you are 1000% right. But look back a generation or two (or to countries where important people act and dress like they should) and you will see have such people should be spoken to, about, etc. We are above the average people on the street and should behave better. The fact that 'that is the way normal people speak' that way does not mean it it is normal to speak that way and we should not accept it. All the more so when talking about people that represent Hashem's Torah.
It reminds me of one time when Rabbi Nueberger brought a senator into the Ner Yisroel bais medrash. Afterwards, the senator made a comment along the line that he now knows why the yeshivah is so successful and the difference between the yeshivah and all other universities. In universities, professors try to act like their students. They dress down, drink with them, hang out with them, and so on. But with yeshivas, the students try to be like their teachers. They dress, walk, talk and so on like their Rabbiem. It is bringing the lower up to the higher instead of the higher lowering themselves.   

In any case, I said what I had to.

Offline AJK

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #294 on: November 13, 2015, 07:21:35 PM »

The fact that you're even arguing this point is most telling.
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline SayWhat

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #295 on: November 14, 2015, 08:41:26 PM »
It is still chuztpah and wrong, just to more people (both are chashuvah people). So now it is even worse.
Again, I almost never post in useless and pointless threads but when somebody accuses a gadol (or gedolim) of doing wrong, my emotions get the best of me and I have to make a macha'ah.
Just to clarify, I'm not saying that Moshe isn't right in his assessment of the situation. But even if 100% right, and somebody made a mistake (which every single person in history has done, aside from 4 people), there is no need to post your opposition publicly and/or be disrespectful.

This is not about a Gadol making a mistake - The accusations being made are of a series of actions over many years that were Shla K'Halacha culminating in being Matir an Eshes Ish. There have been other Gedolim as well as Batei Dinaim who have issued letters stating that in fact the woman is an Eshes Ish and her potential children R"L Mamzerim. The rumor is that there will be more letters coming out in the near future as well. So no this was not a minor one time "mistake". If you want to pluck your ears and stick your head in the sand and make believe that this did not happen thats fine, but don't lecture others about the necessity to publicize the matter.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #296 on: November 19, 2015, 10:51:02 PM »

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #297 on: November 19, 2015, 10:54:46 PM »
Here you clearly have R Shmuel's opinion on this matter.

Offline Moshe123

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #298 on: November 19, 2015, 11:33:48 PM »
Explains both the letter denying it and the reason he didn't publicize it. I can't say you gain respect from speaking out of both sides of his mouth on this issue.

If you think it's ok, have guts, admit it and explain your halachik reasoning and face the fire. Perhaps many Rabbonim will agree.

I don't have much respect for the authors of this letter. I'm only referring to the point they quote him on which makes a lot of sense.

Ok, I'm going to be excoriated.

Offline Iz

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #299 on: November 19, 2015, 11:44:22 PM »
Here you clearly have R Shmuel's opinion on this matter.
"Clearly"? That's the last word I would use to describe our understanding of his opinion. I am utterly baffled by his silence on this.