The Tamar Epstein Saga

[yochiek93]

but the Kaminetsky's aren't clean here.

What do you mean?

[Sammy82]

Or that said Rabbi wrote a secret letter and let the while world keep on thinking that he approved it. He still didn't release a public letter.

The harsh letter is completely unjustified, but the Kaminetsky's aren't clean here.

I rarely post on these type of chats (since I have nothing useful to add) but  after reading what you accused and wrote about a gadol, I have to speak up. Two things-
1. I doubt you know all of the details of this case (as I don't) or even most of them. Even if you are fully knowledgeable in this case, do you know when all of the specific details happened? Why do you think it's ok to accuse a person (no less a Gadol) of doing something when you don't know all of the details?
2. Even if you do know every detail, and you think you are 100% right, and the other person is wrong, and you feel a need to express that on the internet, who the hell do you think you are to refer to a ben torah (not to mention  one of the top gedolim and rosh yeshivas of our generation) like a bum on the street or worse? Kaminetsky? Really? Most people don't talk to their cleaning lady that.
I suggest that you edit or delete that comment before it gets locked.

[avromie7]

I rarely post on these type of chats (since I have nothing useful to add) but  after reading what you accused and wrote about a gadol, I have to speak up. Two things-
1. I doubt you know all of the details of this case (as I don't) or even most of them. Even if you are fully knowledgeable in this case, do you know when all of the specific details happened? Why do you think it's ok to accuse a person (no less a Gadol) of doing something when you don't know all of the details?
2. Even if you do know every detail, and you think you are 100% right, and the other person is wrong, and you feel a need to express that on the internet, who the hell do you think you are to refer to a ben torah (not to mention  one of the top gedolim and rosh yeshivas of our generation) like a bum on the street or worse? Kaminetsky? Really? Most people don't talk to their cleaning lady that.
I suggest that you edit or delete that comment before it gets locked.

You misread what he wrote, he was referring to multiple members of the kaminetsky family

[Moshe123]

You misread what he wrote, he was referring to multiple members of the kaminetsky family

Yup

[yochiek93]

You misread what he wrote, he was referring to multiple members of the kaminetsky family

They are all rabbi's he could've said that

[avromie7]

They are all rabbi's he could've said that

That doesn't mean he did anything wrong

[yochiek93]

That doesn't mean he did anything wrong

Slightly disrespectful

[avromie7]

Slightly disrespectful

I would have written the same way if I were referring to my rebbi whom I greatly respect.

[yochiek93]

I would have written the same way if I were referring to my rebbi whom I greatly respect.

Wow our generation how low we are

[avromie7]

Wow our generation how low we are

I'm  not sure why you  are making such a big deal, that's the way normal people speak

[Sammy82]

You misread what he wrote, he was referring to multiple members of the kaminetsky family

It is still chuztpah and wrong, just to more people (both are chashuvah people). So now it is even worse.
Again, I almost never post in useless and pointless threads but when somebody accuses a gadol (or gedolim) of doing wrong, my emotions get the best of me and I have to make a macha'ah.
Just to clarify, I'm not saying that Moshe isn't right in his assessment of the situation. But even if 100% right, and somebody made a mistake (which every single person in history has done, aside from 4 people), there is no need to post your opposition publicly and/or be disrespectful.

[avromie7]

It is still chuztpah and wrong, just to more people (both are chashuvah people). So now it is even worse.
Again, I almost never post in useless and pointless threads but when somebody accuses a gadol (or gedolim) of doing wrong, my emotions get the best of me and I have to make a macha'ah.
Just to clarify, I'm not saying that Moshe isn't right in his assessment of the situation. But even if 100% right, and somebody made a mistake (which every single person in history has done, aside from 4 people), there is no need to post your opposition publicly and/or be disrespectful.

I'm  not sure why you  are making such a big deal, that's the way normal people speak

[Iz]

It is still chuztpah and wrong, just to more people (both are chashuvah people). So now it is even worse.
Again, I almost never post in useless and pointless threads but when somebody accuses a gadol (or gedolim) of doing wrong, my emotions get the best of me and I have to make a macha'ah.
Just to clarify, I'm not saying that Moshe isn't right in his assessment of the situation. But even if 100% right, and somebody made a mistake (which every single person in history has done, aside from 4 people), there is no need to post your opposition publicly and/or be disrespectful.

Who?

[Sammy82]

I'm  not sure why you  are making such a big deal, that's the way normal people speak

In this day and age, when people we are supposed to look up to (Presidents, professors, etc.) act like the schmoo's (spelling?!) on the street because we all have to be 'equal', you are 1000% right. But look back a generation or two (or to countries where important people act and dress like they should) and you will see have such people should be spoken to, about, etc. We are above the average people on the street and should behave better. The fact that 'that is the way normal people speak' that way does not mean it it is normal to speak that way and we should not accept it. All the more so when talking about people that represent Hashem's Torah.
It reminds me of one time when Rabbi Nueberger brought a senator into the Ner Yisroel bais medrash. Afterwards, the senator made a comment along the line that he now knows why the yeshivah is so successful and the difference between the yeshivah and all other universities. In universities, professors try to act like their students. They dress down, drink with them, hang out with them, and so on. But with yeshivas, the students try to be like their teachers. They dress, walk, talk and so on like their Rabbiem. It is bringing the lower up to the higher instead of the higher lowering themselves.   

In any case, I said what I had to.

[AJK]

The fact that you're even arguing this point is most telling.

[SayWhat]

It is still chuztpah and wrong, just to more people (both are chashuvah people). So now it is even worse.
Again, I almost never post in useless and pointless threads but when somebody accuses a gadol (or gedolim) of doing wrong, my emotions get the best of me and I have to make a macha'ah.
Just to clarify, I'm not saying that Moshe isn't right in his assessment of the situation. But even if 100% right, and somebody made a mistake (which every single person in history has done, aside from 4 people), there is no need to post your opposition publicly and/or be disrespectful.

This is not about a Gadol making a mistake - The accusations being made are of a series of actions over many years that were Shla K'Halacha culminating in being Matir an Eshes Ish. There have been other Gedolim as well as Batei Dinaim who have issued letters stating that in fact the woman is an Eshes Ish and her potential children R"L Mamzerim. The rumor is that there will be more letters coming out in the near future as well. So no this was not a minor one time "mistake". If you want to pluck your ears and stick your head in the sand and make believe that this did not happen thats fine, but don't lecture others about the necessity to publicize the matter.

[churnbabychurn]

[churnbabychurn]

Here you clearly have R Shmuel's opinion on this matter.

[Moshe123]

Explains both the letter denying it and the reason he didn't publicize it. I can't say you gain respect from speaking out of both sides of his mouth on this issue.

If you think it's ok, have guts, admit it and explain your halachik reasoning and face the fire. Perhaps many Rabbonim will agree.

I don't have much respect for the authors of this letter. I'm only referring to the point they quote him on which makes a lot of sense.

Ok, I'm going to be excoriated.

[Iz]

Here you clearly have R Shmuel's opinion on this matter.

"Clearly"? That's the last word I would use to describe our understanding of his opinion. I am utterly baffled by his silence on this.