The Tamar Epstein Saga

[cs50]

How do you explain any of this?

I can't explain any of it because I'm not involved just like everyone else here in here. All I'm saying is these are big rabbis we are talking about and big rabbis don't "play tricks" especially on things this big. I don't think I have to say that if someone said something like this about Dan or make an accusation about Dan everyone would be down that guys throat ready to assassinate that person who said so why shouldn't it be the same about big rabbis. Why is there no kavod for rabbis on this public forum. That's all I was saying. And the truth is no one can argue on anything I'm saying they just ignore it and just care more about hock and miles then about kavod of rabbis. Which IMO is sick.

[aygart]

Do you understand that you are talking about very big rabbis here? Not second graders playing a trick on their teacher....so if you keep on talking about your conspiracy theories I would love to know yours on the JFK assassination as well.

Both of you should at least use the name you use here regularly instead of hiding behind a new name just for this. Let's see how you speak differently when you have a bit of reputation on the line!

[chaimmayer]

If you start with the הנחה that these are גדולי עולם and then you remind yourself that we are still missing a lot of details then you don't have to agonize how to explain it.

Rav Shmuel says he had nothing to do with it - I believe him
Rav Nota says he had nothing to do with it - I believe him too.  I understood the letter to mean he didn't know them at all.  Is it possible he means he wasn't involved in the heter but was mesadder kiddushin for her - maybe

I don't get the impression there was no heter at all - I get the impression that Rav Shalom was matir

Who knows maybe Tamar lied to Rav nota?

[cs50]

Both of you should at least use the name you use here regularly instead of hiding behind a new name just for this. Let's see how you speak differently when you have a bit of reputation on the line!

I'll be one hundred percent honest with you. I've never posted on DDF about anything. I only made a name when this thread was made.

[cs50]

I'll be one hundred percent honest with you. I've never posted on DDF about anything. I only made a name when this thread was made.

And what exactly do I have to hide from. I haven't said anything controversial.

[churnbabychurn]

If you start with the הנחה that these are גדולי עולם and then you remind yourself that we are still missing a lot of details then you don't have to agonize how to explain it.

Rav Shmuel says he had nothing to do with it - I believe him
Rav Nota says he had nothing to do with it - I believe him too.  I understood the letter to mean he didn't know them at all.  Is it possible he means he wasn't involved in the heter but was mesadder kiddushin for her - maybe

I don't get the impression there was no heter at all - I get the impression that Rav Shalom was matir

Who knows maybe Tamar lied to Rav nota?

I don't know anything about R Sholom, but is he a posek in philly?

(Not trying to bash him or anything, I just never heard of any pesokim from him so I'm asking if he is known as a posek?)

[Iz]

Do you understand that you are talking about very big rabbis here? Not second graders playing a trick on their teacher....so if you keep on talking about your conspiracy theories I would love to know yours on the JFK assassination as well.

No, one rosh yeshiva: Hagaon Harav Sholom Kaminetzky Shlit"a. Many "very big rabbis" have written against this "heter"; see upthread.

[cs50]

No, one rosh yeshiva: Hagaon Harav Sholom Kaminetzky Shlit"a. Many "very big rabbis" have written against this "heter"; see upthread.

I agree. All I was saying that this whole story has a lot of rabbis involved. That's all

[churnbabychurn]

I agree. All I was saying that this whole story has a lot of rabbis involved. That's all

Not one rabbi has stood up to defend this "heter". Not a single one.

[aygart]

And what exactly do I have to hide from. I haven't said anything controversial.

True that

[aygart]

No, one rosh yeshiva: Hagaon Harav Sholom Kaminetzky Shlit"a. Many "very big rabbis" have written against this "heter"; see upthread.

Not one rabbi has stood up to defend this "heter". Not a single one.

Yet some are very busy badmouthing them hence his very correct comment.

[chaimmayer]

I don't know anything about R Sholom, but is he a posek in philly?

(Not trying to bash him or anything, I just never heard of any pesokim from him so I'm asking if he is known as a posek?)

C'mon you are yeshivish enough to know there is no official certificate one gets that makes him a posek.
I have no clue whether he is or not but he is known as a talmid Chacham and פיקח.
Parenthetically:
It is well known that many rabbonim are upset that the roshei yeshiva get siddur kiddushin and they are not truly holding not to mention the requirement to be יודע בטיב גיטין וקידושין.
Iirc correctly Rav shternbuch has a a teshuva  about this.

[churnbabychurn]

Yet some are very busy badmouthing them hence his very correct comment.

How do you rationally explain any of this?


Bottom line R Shmuel Kamenetzke and R Nota have clearly written that they were not matir this woman.

Who is responsible for the fact that she is illegitimately living with another man?

But the question of who is responsible for this fiasco and how will it be corrected is also very valid.

No need to be disrespectful of anyone but this fiasco is a big bizayon hatorah veha'halacha.

[aygart]

But the question of who is responsible for this fiasco and how will it be corrected is also very valid.

No need to be disrespectful of anyone but this fiasco is a big bizayon hatorah veha'halacha.

You mean disrespectful like this hiding behind a new name?

He said what? Ummm I think some ppl in Philly need some explaining to do

It's possible that R Shalom tricked R Notta twice. Once by falsely presenting the case as one where the husband had a mental sickness which is only based on a report written by a psychologist who never met the husband and used R Notta's name as the Matir. The second time might have been when the couple went to R Notta to be masder (with R Notta not knowing that this was the woman in R Shalom's theoretical case) and R Notta asked the couple who is your Rabbi and she said R Shalom and R Shalom than vouched to R Notta that she is in fact ok to be married.   

[cf]

But the question of who is responsible for this fiasco and how will it be corrected is also very valid.

No need to be disrespectful of anyone but this fiasco is a big bizayon hatorah veha'halacha.

You're trying to solve the story here on this forum?

[cs50]

You're trying to solve the story here on this forum?

Things are definitely going to get interesting with this story...
Figured I'd preemptively start the thread.
Feel free to vent your personal frustrations with this chillul hashem, but without denigrating talmidei chachomim. 

[churnbabychurn]

You're trying to solve the story here on this forum?

This has to be publicized and discussed on every possible forum until it is resolved.

[SayWhat]

You mean disrespectful like this hiding behind a new name?

You mean disrespectful like being matir an Aishes Eish with smoke and mirrors?

[cs50]

You mean disrespectful like being matir an Aishes Eish with smoke and mirrors?

Seriously? You haven't gotten the point that rabbis don't use "smoke and mirrors". "Smoke and mirrors" is what you do to get free stuff and miles and points all the other things out of this forum (which me myself is very thankful for). Rabbis don't do smoke and mirrors. And your wrong for saying that. But then again you don't care.

[aygart]

You mean disrespectful like being matir an Aishes Eish with smoke and mirrors?

If you are going to speak like this about people whose torah and yiras shomayim is countless times greater than yours at least have the courage to put your own reputation on the line! Your smoke and mirrors are much smokier than theirs!

You are speaking against those greater than you with nothing but innuendo and you have not written even a tiny bit in the way of facts to back up your shmutz!