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הוי זהיר בגחלתם שלא תכוה, שנשיכתן נשיכת שועל ועקיצתן עקיצת עקרב, ולחישתן לחישת שרף, וכל דבריהם כגחלי אש

« Last edited by Baruch on March 30, 2016, 01:00:08 PM »

Author Topic: The Tamar Epstein Saga  (Read 281223 times)

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #400 on: November 29, 2015, 12:46:04 PM »
There is no question of his involvment in the shakla vitarya-the question is whether he or anyone else gave a final shtemple. That I have not yet seen
The first letter is a request from RN for the heter in writing (implies that a heter was given orally)

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #401 on: November 29, 2015, 12:46:52 PM »
You have come a long way in an hour - you will figure it all out soon - I'll be patient with you
All it will take is for you to come out of hiding and present facts
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #402 on: November 29, 2015, 12:59:33 PM »
The first letter is a request from RN for the heter in writing (implies that a heter was given orally)
Which he claims was never given
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #403 on: November 29, 2015, 01:09:44 PM »
All it will take is for you to come out of hiding and present facts
But even if facts become known which will change my opinion in this matter it will not change my opinion of statements made before those facts become known.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline gingyguy

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #404 on: November 29, 2015, 01:16:21 PM »
Sshh it's Lashon Hora nobody wants to hear if a Gadol was matir an Eshes Ish. We don't care about G-d's torah or what it says in it. We don't care if there is corruption. Please lets not jump to conclusions with every condemnation letter that comes. If you see something lets not say anything. Maybe if we just ignore this it will go away and everything will be ok. Ssshhhhh
" gods torah " as you say was not given for you to pick and choose . Lashon hara is also asur . Even if you happen to be right. If you would be wrong ( as i imagine you probably are with your great knowledge of shas and poskim) than it would be motzi shem ra which is considerably worse
May you slide down the banister of happiness & get many splinters of success up your career.

Offline henche

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #405 on: November 29, 2015, 01:35:13 PM »
Eta. They are up

http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2015/11/tamar-epsteins-heter-r-shlomo.html?m=1

I can't read it; too blurry.  And how'd he get the letters anyway? I'm calling fake.

Offline a mirrer

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #406 on: November 29, 2015, 01:44:11 PM »
" gods torah " as you say was not given for you to pick and choose . Lashon hara is also asur . Even if you happen to be right. If you would be wrong ( as i imagine you probably are with your great knowledge of shas and poskim) than it would be motzi shem ra which is considerably worse
hypothetically if the facts reported here are true then there wouldn't be the issue of loshon hara because במקום שיש חילול השם אין חולקין כבוד לרב

Offline gingyguy

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #407 on: November 29, 2015, 01:50:56 PM »
hypothetically thats a decision that belongs to someone who has shoulders broad enough to take achrayus for a potential to be over on so many lavin
May you slide down the banister of happiness & get many splinters of success up your career.

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #408 on: November 29, 2015, 01:59:32 PM »
All it will take is for you to come out of hiding and present facts

Not taking sides, but I don't see why his "hiding" is of importance to this issue.
Facts, yes.
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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #409 on: November 29, 2015, 02:01:35 PM »
But even if facts become known which will change my opinion in this matter it will not change my opinion of statements made before those facts become known.

Maybe he is privy to more information than you are?
If information that is released corroborates what he claims,
there's no reason to assume he's making things up out of thin air.

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Offline Aaaron

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #410 on: November 29, 2015, 02:01:48 PM »
Not taking sides, but I don't see why his "hiding" is of importance to this issue.

It implies bias.

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #411 on: November 29, 2015, 02:09:26 PM »
It implies bias.

It's natural that most people involved in a debate will be biased in some way or another.
If a debater can provide facts, that's all that should matter for someone seeking the truth.
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #412 on: November 29, 2015, 02:09:39 PM »
I can't read it; too blurry.  And how'd he get the letters anyway? I'm calling fake.
The letters were distributed to many rabbis as part or R Sholom's heter shopping spree.

Offline SayWhat

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #413 on: November 29, 2015, 03:28:19 PM »
R Shalom's letter says that the husband was Mechyuv to give a Get. That is a bold faced lie. I challenge anyone to find the Bais Din that was mechyuv the husband to give a get.

Both parties signed a shtar beirur with the Baltimore bais din and they did not issue a ruling that the husband must issue a get. The wife tried her luck with the DC/ Silver Spring Vaad and they issued a letter verifying what I just said see http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2015/11/tamar-epstein-heter-understanding.html

Now there was a "Bais Din" that issued a "Seruv" against the husband but that "Bais Din" was none other than the Epstein/Wolmark Kangaroo Court. As seen here http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2015/11/tamar-epstein-heter-understanding_25.html The wifes attorney, Fredrick Goldfine, was given immunity in order to override his ability to avoid testifying by invoking the Fifth Amendment in the Mendel Epstein trial. You can read part of his testimony as to how the "Seruv" came about. I would mention that R Shmuel Kaminetsky signed the bogus "seruv" also but I don't want to get anyone mad.

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #414 on: November 29, 2015, 03:47:23 PM »
Not taking sides, but I don't see why his "hiding" is of importance to this issue.
Facts, yes.
If someone brings facts then his hiding is less relevant since the facts speak for themselves, but since he has not gone past innuendo the anonymity becomes much more relevant.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #415 on: November 29, 2015, 03:50:39 PM »
Maybe he is privy to more information than you are?
If information that is released corroborates what he claims,
there's no reason to assume he's making things up out of thin air.
He hasn't said any information at all and only attacked people
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline cs50

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #416 on: November 29, 2015, 03:52:34 PM »

He hasn't said any information at all and only attacked people

Its a lost cause. Save your words. It sounds like he has an agenda. Period. What you say isn't going to change the attacks....he'll face his Maker one day.

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #417 on: November 29, 2015, 03:54:44 PM »
He hasn't said any information at all and only attacked people
No attacks just facts

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #418 on: November 29, 2015, 05:16:16 PM »
He hasn't said any information at all and only attacked people
Fact - In the letter written by R Shalom it says that the husband was mechyuv to give a get.

I dispute what was written.

Fact - I provided a link to where the reader can find a letter written by the DC Vaad stating "First, at this time there is no Bet Din order for Mr. Friedman to give a get" (you can go on to read the rest of the letter which says that the Baltimore Bais Din has and had jurisdiction in this case)

If you can provide a psak din from a Bais Din that has actual jurisdiction in this case to collaborate the claim from R' Shalom than please do share.   

If I present facts that don't agree with your preconceived outcome doesn't mean I only attack - your reaction seems to indicate that you may have a hard time swallowing the truth.

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #419 on: November 29, 2015, 05:42:47 PM »
Fact - In the letter written by R Shalom it says that the husband was mechyuv to give a get.

I dispute what was written.

Fact - I provided a link to where the reader can find a letter written by the DC Vaad stating "First, at this time there is no Bet Din order for Mr. Friedman to give a get" (you can go on to read the rest of the letter which says that the Baltimore Bais Din has and had jurisdiction in this case)

If you can provide a psak din from a Bais Din that has actual jurisdiction in this case to collaborate the claim from R' Shalom than please do share.   

If I present facts that don't agree with your preconceived outcome doesn't mean I only attack - your reaction seems to indicate that you may have a hard time swallowing the truth.
Let us assume that no bais din gave a psak that he is mechuyav to give a get. This is still a far cry from your attacks on them. Anyone who reads your posts in this thread can see that this was the sole fact which you posted. That you are claiming this as proof that you are posting no attacks only facts shows how ridiculous your statements are. After calling them all names in the book you mention one small fact which even if 100% true as you presented it does not even come close to justifying your attacks.

I addition I will point out that the date of the letter you posted is in 2010, a good few years before he wrote that the B'D paskened that he is mechuyav. The letter itself specifically states "at this time".

I have no pre-conceived outcome here. On the other hand, before writing the way you did about a Rosh Yeshiva there is a high standard of evidence required. You have not presented any such evidence. As I wrote before,
All it will take is for you to come out of hiding and present facts
You have not yet done so.
Feelings don't care about your facts