The Tamar Epstein Saga

[Aaaron]

My feelings are towards those that despise halacha and mesorah and wish it all wasn't so "rigid and inconsiderate"

My Rebbe, a very well-respected talmid chuchum from a yeshivish yeshiva, recently asked my advice on how to avoid leaving pi shnaim to his son upon the advice of his rebbe to do so.  How dare we mess with halacha and mesorah?!  You just won't acknowledge that everyone picks and chooses where they're willing to find a way -again - within the framework of existing halachic authority.

ETA:  The funny part is that his Rebbe is one of the published anti-heter gedolim mentioned frequently in this thread.

[Baruch]

My Rebbe, a very well-respected talmid chuchum from a yeshivish yeshiva, recently asked my advice on how to avoid leaving pi shnaim to his son upon the advice of his rebbe to do so.  How dare we mess with halacha and mesorah?!  You just won't acknowledge that everyone picks and chooses where they're willing to find a way -again - within the framework of existing halachic authority.

ETA:  The funny part is that his Rebbe is one of the published anti-heter gedolim mentioned frequently in this thread.

Ask your Rebbe if he agrees with your views on Halacha

[Aaaron]

Ask your Rebbe if he agrees with your views on Halacha

Based on your prior post, I don't think you understand my view on halacha.  It may have been a reading comprehension issue.

[SayWhat]

My Rebbe, a very well-respected talmid chuchum from a yeshivish yeshiva, recently asked my advice on how to avoid leaving pi shnaim to his son upon the advice of his rebbe to do so.  How dare we mess with halacha and mesorah?!  You just won't acknowledge that everyone picks and chooses where they're willing to find a way -again - within the framework of existing halachic authority.

ETA:  The funny part is that his Rebbe is one of the published anti-heter gedolim mentioned frequently in this thread.

The issue with the heter is not if we would apply Rav Moshes sevra to a case of PD - but rather how the determination was made that AF has this supposed disorder as well as the lack of transparency in this whole process.

[Aaaron]

The issue with the heter is not if we would apply Rav Moshes sevra to a case of PD - but rather how the determination was made that AF has this supposed disorder as well as the lack of transparency in this whole process.

Wow, I actually agree with you!  Those are very fair points. 

[SayWhat]

Wow, I actually agree with you!  Those are very fair points.

Just to rephrase that - whether Rav Moshes sevra would apply to PD is besides the point because of the issues I raised.

I would highly doubt any of the Poskim who came out with letters would agree that it does - but that is a technical argument. The issue here is Rabinic malpractice. There are no two sides to that

[yakrot]

Two thing I seem to missing are as follows ( I would appreciate it if someone could respectfully fill me in)

1) is it a fact that rav ng did in fact be mesader ?

2) and if he was mesader and realized afterwards that the entire kiddushin was forced upon him with seemingly intentional trickery, why does he have to go farther than to say that there is no hetter for them to be married.

[churnbabychurn]

Two thing I seem to missing are as follows ( I would appreciate it if someone could respectfully fill me in)

1) is it a fact that rav ng did in fact be mesader ?

2) and if he was mesader and realized afterwards that the entire kiddushin was forced upon him with seemingly intentional trickery, why does he have to go farther than to say that there is no hetter for them to be married.

1) yes
2) he has not done that

[Baruch]

Based on your prior post, I don't think you understand my view on halacha.  It may have been a reading comprehension issue.

3 people understood you, the way I understood you, (and still believe that's what you meant), and I have a reading comprehension issue.

[Aaaron]

3 people understood you, the way I understood you, (and still believe that's what you meant), and I have a reading comprehension issue.

Now you've lost me, but I'll play anyway.  What do you understand my position on halacha to be? 

[yuneeq]

Now you've lost me, but I'll play anyway.  What do you understand my position on halacha to be?

That if you just concentrate hard enough you can mattir just about anything.

[avromie7]

http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2015/10/kiddushei-taus-annulment-rav-moshe.html

Rav Moshe suggested applying this ruling in five actual cases. They involved an impotent man (Teshuvot Igrot Moshe, E.H. 1:79), a man who concealed that he had been institutionalized prior to the marriage (E.H. 1:80), a man who concealed that he vehemently opposed having children and later forced his wife to abort a fetus (E.H. 4:13),9 a man who concealed that he was a practicing homosexual prior to the marriage (E.H. 4:113), and a man who concealed that he converted to another religion (E.H. 4:83).

This case is not even remotely similar to any of the above mentioned cases. If this case were to be considered similar enough to any of the above mentioned cases, R' Moshe would have used this heter hundreds of times.

[Baruch]

That if you just concentrate hard enough you can mattir just about anything.

you're the 4th person to have reading comprehension problems.

[avromie7]

you're the 4th person to have reading comprehension problems.

I guess you can count me in as fifth

[Baruch]

http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2015/10/kiddushei-taus-annulment-rav-moshe.html

This case is not even remotely similar to any of the above mentioned cases. If this case were to be considered similar enough to any of the above mentioned cases, R' Moshe would have used this heter hundreds of times.

I will play devil's advocate:
According to Rav Shalom, the husband threatened a previous fiancee with his fist. If the once practicing homosexual, had relations like a normal man with his wife, that's not so far off from threatening a fiancee with a fist.

A 65 year old Talmid Chacham muflag, asked me recently to give him a quick outline of the story - when I got up to the fist story, he said - "Wow - taka a meshugena!".

[Baruch]

I guess you can count me in as fifth

lol. 5 for 5.

[henche]

I will play devil's advocate:
According to Rav Shalom, the husband threatened a previous fiancee with his fist. If the once practicing homosexual, had relations like a normal man with his wife, that's not so far off from threatening a fiancee with a fist.

A 65 year old Talmid Chacham muflag, asked me recently to give him a quick outline of the story - when I got up to the fist story, he said - "Wow - taka a meshugena!".

lolol are you kidding me?

Anyone who threatens someone else with a fist--they're wife can walk without a get at any time they want? 

I assume your 65 year old talmid chacham muflag was being sarcastic?

[Baruch]

lolol are you kidding me?

Anyone who threatens someone else with a fist--they're wife can walk without a get at any time they want? 

I assume your 65 year old talmid chacham muflag was being sarcastic?

You don't think someone who threatens his fiancee with his fist is a meshugena?

Now for that to be kedushei ta'us is another story.

My point was, that if Rav Moshe's homosexual, had taavas nashim for his wife, (I didn't see the teshuva, and it may be that he didn't, which would be a simple mekach ta'us), then unfortunately a homosexual is not that crazy....

[avromie7]

I will play devil's advocate:
According to Rav Shalom, the husband threatened a previous fiancee with his fist. If the once practicing homosexual, had relations like a normal man with his wife, that's not so far off from threatening a fiancee with a fist.

A 65 year old Talmid Chacham muflag, asked me recently to give him a quick outline of the story - when I got up to the fist story, he said - "Wow - taka a meshugena!".

I don't even know where to begin with that "comparison", according to that R' Moshe would have used this heter thousands of times.

[henche]

You don't think someone who threatens his fiancee with his fist is a meshugena?

No.