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הוי זהיר בגחלתם שלא תכוה, שנשיכתן נשיכת שועל ועקיצתן עקיצת עקרב, ולחישתן לחישת שרף, וכל דבריהם כגחלי אש

« Last edited by Baruch on March 30, 2016, 01:00:08 PM »

Author Topic: The Tamar Epstein Saga  (Read 276135 times)

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #800 on: December 18, 2015, 09:44:14 AM »
Who is Rav Knopfler?, and were Rav Chaim and Rav Nissim "gam ani mitztarfim" to his addition, or to the Baltimore Bais Din psak? I can't read the original, it's unclear
Rav Knopfler is the avad of badatz delakewood. A big talmid of the RNK beis din. .. You should have seen him around satmar.....  ;)


IMHO Rav NK was mitztaref to R sariel Rosenbergs machoah. Not the most extreme one..

Offline Baruch

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #801 on: December 18, 2015, 09:45:03 AM »
I just found the original. The printed version posted above is intentionally misleading.
The Gedolei Hador were not mitztaref to Rav Knofler's letter which singles out the Rabbis Kaminetzky and Greenblatt.

Offline Baruch

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #802 on: December 18, 2015, 09:45:59 AM »
Rav Knopfler is the avad of badatz delakewood. A big talmid of the RNK beis din. .. You should have seen him around satmar.....  ;)
Is he the one that all the Rabbanim in Lakewood signed a letter saying that his Bais din is not a Bais din?

Offline Baruch

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #803 on: December 18, 2015, 09:47:12 AM »
Indeed. Odd that they pin this on Rav Shmuel
"they" didn't pin it on Rav Shmuel.
The whole letter posted above is a fraud.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #804 on: December 18, 2015, 09:49:09 AM »
Is he the one that all the Rabbanim in Lakewood signed a letter saying that his Bais din is not a Bais din?
That is the one that went head to head with R Sholom Miller. Yes.

Who cares. His letter is doesnt add anything. See my edited post above. RNK Probably didnt add on to his letter anyway. (though R Knopfler is a talimid of R sariel Rosenberg and they at least still do hold of him...)

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #805 on: December 18, 2015, 09:50:51 AM »
"they" didn't pin it on Rav Shmuel.
The whole letter posted above is a fraud.
Yes, some idiot did stick knopflers letter above and add Gam ani mitztafers on the side.

The real Gam ani's are on the bottom of the hand written letter from R sariel Rosenberg. It is posted upthread.

Offline Baruch

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #806 on: December 18, 2015, 09:53:42 AM »
Yes, some idiot did stick knopflers letter above and add Gam ani mitztafers on the side.

The real Gam ani's are on the bottom of the hand written letter from R sariel Rosenberg. It is posted upthread.
He wasn't an idiot. He was a smart fraudster, and intentionally misleading. And he misled me and @Ergel. 

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #807 on: December 18, 2015, 09:59:22 AM »
He wasn't an idiot. He was a smart fraudster, and intentionally misleading. And he misled me and @Ergel.

See here.

BTW Its is getting increasingly difficult to rationalize the separation of the matir from the heter.- How do you justify or rationalized how a terrible thing can be done, (-daas gedoly hador) but the doer is a tzadik yesod olam?

Offline Ergel

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #808 on: December 18, 2015, 10:22:38 AM »
obviously there was more involvement then what was claimed by some
What makes you say this?
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline Baruch

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #809 on: December 18, 2015, 10:24:16 AM »
See here.

BTW Its is getting increasingly difficult to rationalize the separation of the matir from the heter.- How do you justify or rationalized how a terrible thing can be done, (-daas gedoly hador) but the doer is a tzadik yesod olam?
See - Adam and Chava - Eitz HaDaas, Reuvein - Du'daim, Shimon Va'Levi - Shechem , Yehudah - Tamar, All the shevatim (besides Binyamin) - Mechiras Yosef, Aharon HaKohen - Chet Ha'egel, Shaul Hamelech -  Amalek, David Hamelech - Batsheva, etc.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #810 on: December 18, 2015, 11:03:29 AM »
See - Adam and Chava - Eitz HaDaas, Reuvein - Du'daim, Shimon Va'Levi - Shechem , Yehudah - Tamar, All the shevatim (besides Binyamin) - Mechiras Yosef, Aharon HaKohen - Chet Ha'egel, Shaul Hamelech -  Amalek, David Hamelech - Batsheva, etc.
Even if i grant that your comparison is valid. There is a big massive fundamental difference, in all of your cases they all fully regretted what was done, distanced themselves from the action, publicly did teshuva, charatah and viduy.

I guess you are expecting the same here. Don't hold your breath.

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #811 on: December 18, 2015, 11:39:32 AM »
Somehow it seems to me like the ones pointing fingers at rabbonim and roshei yeshiva are primarily the "wannabe"s like Knopffler and those here and on other online locations as opposed to the rabbonim and roshei yeshiva who signed letters without going after them.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Yitz

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #812 on: December 18, 2015, 11:40:07 AM »
It would be nice if all the Rabbonim that are against R'K would help that a Get be given instead of writing all the letters.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #813 on: December 18, 2015, 11:41:42 AM »
It would be nice if all the Rabbonim that are against R'K would help that a Get be given instead of writing all the letters.
It's far from clear that a get would make her mutter to the second husband...
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Ergel

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #814 on: December 18, 2015, 11:43:15 AM »
It's clear that a get would not make her mutter to the second husband...
FTFY
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Offline SayWhat

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #815 on: December 18, 2015, 11:53:45 AM »
Somehow it seems to me like the ones pointing fingers at rabbonim and roshei yeshiva are primarily the "wannabe"s like Knopffler and those here and on other online locations as opposed to the rabbonim and roshei yeshiva who signed letters without going after them.
You are correct but that's just symantics which can be argued about. What they all seem to agree is that the woman is living in sin and that future children will c"v be mamzairm.
The question is why haven't the Rabonim who allowed this to happen done anything to rectify the situation instead of just blaming each other?

Offline henche

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #816 on: December 18, 2015, 11:57:29 AM »
It would be nice if all the Rabbonim that are against R'K would help that a Get be given instead of writing all the letters.

So that they could then go to jail and you could post here that they deserve it?

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #817 on: December 18, 2015, 12:04:56 PM »
Somehow it seems to me like the ones pointing fingers at rabbonim and roshei yeshiva are primarily the "wannabe"s like Knopffler and those here and on other online locations as opposed to the rabbonim and roshei yeshiva who signed letters without going after them.
All of the letters decried the process of the heter and the heter. Many letters do actually refer to RNG and they are not "wannabe's". Others went without naming the perpetrators. But noone seems to explicitly separate the matirim from the heter.

Im still not understanding how such terrible actions can be committed by what you hope are perfect people? How do you rationalize it? Unless you want to aurgue that nothing wrong was done here. But this argument is really not going to stick anymore.


Lets not make knopflers letter a distraction. - That's all it is.

Offline avromie7

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #818 on: December 18, 2015, 01:22:09 PM »
It would be nice if all the Rabbonim that are against R'K would help that a Get be given instead of writing all the letters.
Don't make up halachos, and go against psak B"D and blame all the rabbonim for following halacha.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Ergel

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #819 on: December 18, 2015, 01:25:40 PM »
Im still not understanding how such terrible actions can be committed by what you hope are perfect people?
???
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.