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הוי זהיר בגחלתם שלא תכוה, שנשיכתן נשיכת שועל ועקיצתן עקיצת עקרב, ולחישתן לחישת שרף, וכל דבריהם כגחלי אש

« Last edited by Baruch on March 30, 2016, 01:00:08 PM »

Author Topic: The Tamar Epstein Saga  (Read 276137 times)

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #820 on: December 18, 2015, 02:05:13 PM »
???
You also believe that all the machoas in the world reflect only on the heter but not on the matirim?

Offline Baruch

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #821 on: December 18, 2015, 02:34:44 PM »
Even if i grant that your comparison is valid. There is a big massive fundamental difference, in all of your cases they all fully regretted what was done, distanced themselves from the action, publicly did teshuva, charatah and viduy.

I guess you are expecting the same here. Don't hold your breath.
I I'm explaining why the Gedolim who think Rav Shmuel is wrong aren't attacking him, but the Psak.
That's how Gedolim act, as opposed to Kaasanim and Letzanim.

Offline Baruch

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #822 on: December 18, 2015, 02:36:31 PM »
FTFY
If a big Rav is telling her till the Get that she's mutar to the 2nd man, there is a big makom to say she's mutar la'boel.

Offline Super Speed

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #823 on: December 18, 2015, 02:37:58 PM »
If a big Rav is telling her till the Get that she's mutar to the 2nd man, there is a big makom to say she's mutar la'boel.
The problem is at this point I don't think anyone is holding up the Heter and she's still with him.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #824 on: December 18, 2015, 03:05:57 PM »
The problem is at this point I don't think anyone is holding up the Heter and she's still with him.
Right. Now it's a boel without a "heter".

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #825 on: December 18, 2015, 03:10:55 PM »
I I'm explaining why the Gedolim who think Rav Shmuel is wrong aren't attacking him, but the Psak.
That's how Gedolim act, as opposed to Kaasanim and Letzanim.
I don't get what you are saying. How are you explaining anything by comparing R shmuel to tanach figure who erred and did teshuva?

Imho They are not directly attacking R Shmuel because that isn't the point of the machoas. Even RNG was attacked by some in a constructive way, he was requested to separate the sinners. There would be no constructive reason to talk about R Shmuel after he officially denied involvement.

Noone cares if knopfler is a letz or not.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #826 on: December 18, 2015, 03:50:58 PM »
If a big Rav is telling her till the Get that she's mutar to the 2nd man, there is a big makom to say she's mutar la'boel.

AFAIK al pi beis din is definitely Ones and mutter, the only question is if she knew the BD was based on false information.

The problem is at this point I don't think anyone is holding up the Heter and she's still with him.
Doesn't seem to be any retraction from R Shalom

I wonder if it's possible to be melamed zechus on R Shmuel that he's holding back in order to keep her אנוסה...  Afaik he's known to be more pragmatically practical and less of a kanai like the Eida Charadeis type.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #827 on: December 18, 2015, 04:00:01 PM »


AFAIK al pi beis din is definitely Ones and mutter, the only question is if she knew the BD was based on false information.
Doesn't seem to be any retraction from R Shalom

R Sholom? ?

Even he wouldn't make you believe that he paskened on this sheila. What would he retract? All he did was convince RNG that the husband is insane.

You want him to retract that? How would that help?

Offline a mirrer

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #828 on: December 19, 2015, 12:44:17 PM »
AFAIK al pi beis din is definitely Ones and mutter, the only question is if she knew the BD was based on false information.
iinm ones only helps for the husband not the boel

Offline yuneeq

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #829 on: December 19, 2015, 10:12:54 PM »
AFAIK al pi beis din is definitely Ones and mutter, the only question is if she knew the BD was based on false information.
Doesn't seem to be any retraction from R Shalom

I wonder if it's possible to be melamed zechus on R Shmuel that he's holding back in order to keep her אנוסה...  Afaik he's known to be more pragmatically practical and less of a kanai like the Eida Charadeis type.

No one is claiming that a BD paskened that she's muttar.
Visibly Jewish

Offline Ergel

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #830 on: December 19, 2015, 11:13:36 PM »
You also believe that all the machoas in the world reflect only on the heter but not on the matirim?
Nope. I'm just confused how you hope people are perfect. You do know there's no such thing, right?
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline Baruch

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #831 on: December 19, 2015, 11:21:12 PM »
No one is claiming that a BD paskened that she's muttar.
She got married by the #1 Rav in America on inyanei gittin vekidushin.
It doesn't get more shogeg/ones than that.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #832 on: December 19, 2015, 11:36:48 PM »
She got married by the #1 Rav in America on inyanei gittin vekidushin.
It doesn't get more shogeg/ones than that.
She's an Ones today? Someone should tell her that the "number one rov" is also currently the number one controversial posek in America. - He himself openly says that he does not know the facts here. Tamar Epstein DOES know the facts very very well. She bemayzid went along with this charade of fooling the "number one rov" about the facts.

The last thing anyone would call her is an ones. Simply ridiculous.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #833 on: December 19, 2015, 11:38:20 PM »
She got married by the #1 Rav in America on inyanei gittin vekidushin.


I'm not sure who decided that.

He's known as the most lenient in re to marrying problematic cases, which is why they went to him.


״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #834 on: December 19, 2015, 11:39:09 PM »
I'm not sure who decided that.

He's known as the most lenient in re to marrying problematic cases, which is why they went to him.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #835 on: December 19, 2015, 11:42:15 PM »
You could go around Bmg six months ago and ask people about RNG, unless they needed him for a get heter noone ever heard of him.

I'm sure he is a talmid chochom, but let's not get ahead of ourselves by calling it an ones to continue blindly following him even after the entire world is being mocheh.

Offline Baruch

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #836 on: December 19, 2015, 11:46:53 PM »
You could go around Bmg six months ago and ask people about RNG, unless they needed him for a get heter noone ever heard of him.

Absolutely not true.

Offline Aaaron

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #837 on: December 20, 2015, 01:11:25 PM »
Absolutely not true.

+1. Even I'd heard of him ;)

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #838 on: December 20, 2015, 01:48:57 PM »
+1. Even I'd heard of him ;)
Lol. Proves my point?

Offline Aaaron

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #839 on: December 20, 2015, 03:18:35 PM »
Lol. Proves my point?

Not really.  I went to a Yeshivish high school and have certainly heard of him from there.