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הוי זהיר בגחלתם שלא תכוה, שנשיכתן נשיכת שועל ועקיצתן עקיצת עקרב, ולחישתן לחישת שרף, וכל דבריהם כגחלי אש

« Last edited by Baruch on March 30, 2016, 01:00:08 PM »

Author Topic: The Tamar Epstein Saga  (Read 275939 times)

Offline bk73

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #860 on: December 21, 2015, 04:06:23 PM »

The point I am making is that many people here have attempted to defend the heter by saying that RNG is the "Gadol hador leinyaney Gittin", and is therefore a Bal pelugsa on kol gedolay hador who have decried his actions here.

Kol gedolie hadar did not make a machah and even the ones that did read how carefully they did not attack him  rather his psak. Except for the chasidishe kol korehs who attack him)   It is very possible that he erred in this case badly it still does not take away the fact that he is the leading gadol in america in inyaney gittin. Anybody in any field of rabanus (not a rabbi who give a shabbos morning drasha in a basment minyan) who deals in halachah knows of him and respects him in the highest regard.

Offline AJK

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #861 on: December 21, 2015, 04:10:04 PM »
Your chutzpah is so apparent here...
You obviously don't know enough about the inyan of gittin to spew your opinion on this matter.  If you did, you would've at least heard of him. It seems that until this saga, you've never even knew he existed.

Guys, let him rant and rave and be mevazeh talmidei chachamim if he so desires. There is only so much the collective can do.

And sure, no one is saying Rabbis are infallible, but in some cases, these rabbis have a *lifetime* behind them of learning, sacrificing, and helping the klal. The least some of you faceless rumor mongers can do is afford them a bit of respect and benefit of the doubt considering their history.

The truth will come out one way or the other. It's not your jobs to spit venom on the backs of people that are undoubtedly greater than you.
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Offline bk73

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #862 on: December 21, 2015, 04:32:39 PM »
It just gets me upset that people look at any excuze to bash gedolim. I guess the only gadol for  people is daniel eidenshon :)

Offline dealfinder85

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #863 on: December 21, 2015, 04:34:36 PM »
perhaps its time to close up this thread
i dont think a single productive thing comes out of it
i think many unproductive and damaging things come out of it

Offline Sport

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #864 on: December 21, 2015, 05:44:30 PM »

Offline Dr Moose

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #865 on: December 21, 2015, 05:46:33 PM »


Feel free to vent your personal frustrations with this chillul hashem, but without denigrating talmidei chachomim.
I now laugh at this line.
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #866 on: December 21, 2015, 05:52:31 PM »


Kol gedolie hadar did not make a machah and even the ones that did read how carefully they did not attack him  rather his psak. Except for the chasidishe kol korehs who attack him)   

Neither did I.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #867 on: December 21, 2015, 05:57:41 PM »
Guys, let him rant and rave and be mevazeh talmidei chachamim if he so desires. There is only so much the collective can do.
I would be able to respond better to these accusations of bizayon tamid chochom if y'all would actually quote my post that you found offensive. (Like aaron was kind enough to do)

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #868 on: December 21, 2015, 05:58:10 PM »
Can't stand the narrative that he takes.
+1

Offline Aaaron

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #869 on: December 21, 2015, 06:16:42 PM »
I would be able to respond better to these accusations of bizayon tamid chochom if y'all would actually quote my post that you found offensive. (Like aaron was kind enough to do)

Here was another one of yours (emphasis added):

If he hasn't published seforim, has virtually no talmidim and lives out in the boondocks I don't see how or why the velt should know of him...

Any normal even haezer question i have heard of is usually handled by established botei din. The big shailos in even haezer are generally moved up to senior gedolim by the botay din. (R belski in the USA, but mostly R Elyashiv zl, R Nisim karelitz's and others.)

It seems like RNG has been used to pasken shailos for the more out of town type of crowd. Not necessarily modern Orthodox, but he is definitely not one of the regular yeshivish used poskim.

Knowing how you feel about MO...

Offline bk73

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #870 on: December 21, 2015, 06:29:13 PM »
Ok I agree, he is the go to Rov to arrange a quick and smooth get out of town. So what.
Is this not mevazeh talmid chacham?

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #871 on: December 21, 2015, 06:30:59 PM »
Here was another one of yours (emphasis added):

Knowing how you feel about MO...
Hence I explicitly mentioned that I am not implying that he services mo.

Il clarify for the last time. I am not in anyway trying to denigrate RNG. All I am saying is that from what I know, he is not some uber "godol hador leinyaney Gittin."

This does not mean that he is not a choshuva talmid chochom at all. He's just simply not the "last word" beinyoney Gittin.

The reason why I feel that it is important to make this point, is because this claim has been used to validate his pesak here.


As to my qualifications to make this claim. I don't have any. I'm just talking from my experience and pretty decent (IMHO) knowledge of poskim and pesak. I stand by my statement that the average Ben Torah never heard of RNG untill this story.
Bh I never got divorced so I do not have hands on experience.



Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #872 on: December 21, 2015, 06:32:07 PM »
Is this not mevazeh talmid chacham?
How is it??

Offline bk73

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #873 on: December 21, 2015, 06:48:29 PM »
Hence I explicitly mentioned that I am not implying that he services mo.

Il clarify for the last time. I am not in anyway trying to denigrate RNG. All I am saying is that from what I know, he is not some uber "godol hador leinyaney Gittin."

This does not mean that he is not a choshuva talmid chochom at all. He's just simply not the "last word" beinyoney Gittin.

The reason why I feel that it is important to make this point, is because this claim has been used to validate his pesak here.


As to my qualifications to make this claim. I don't have any. I'm just talking from my experience and pretty decent (IMHO) knowledge of poskim and pesak. I stand by my statement that the average Ben Torah never heard of RNG untill this story.
Bh I never got divorced so I do not have hands on experience.

The average ben torah is not involved in gittin thats why they  never heard of him . He is not a gadol hador and was never at an agudah convention . Even reb moshe sternbuch who is pretty extreme called him a gadol .He was a posek in inyonei gittin his whole life thank g-d you never had to deal with that. Ask any RABBI  who is involved in halachah And they will know about him and will say he is from the leading rav in inyanei gittin  . That is a fact . if you insist that your were not trying to be mevazeh him then fine but you are clearly misinformed  about who he is and how well excepted he is .

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #874 on: December 21, 2015, 07:12:18 PM »

The average ben torah is not involved in gittin thats why they  never heard of him . He is not a gadol hador and was never at an agudah convention . Even reb moshe sternbuch who is pretty extreme called him a gadol .He was a posek in inyonei gittin his whole life thank g-d you never had to deal with that. Ask any RABBI  who is involved in halachah And they will know about him and will say he is from the leading rav in inyanei gittin  . That is a fact . if you insist that your were not trying to be mevazeh him then fine but you are clearly misinformed  about who he is and how well excepted he is .
R shternbuch was referring to R Shmuel

Offline SayWhat

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #875 on: December 21, 2015, 07:47:13 PM »
The question of how big Rabbi Greenblatt is or isn't is neither here nor there. There is a letter that he wrote (which was posted on this thread somewhere) in which he said that he did not know any of the facts in this case but relied solely on what someone else told him. The facts presented to R Greenblatt were incorrect and yet he is unwilling to retract his psak.

The heter was not the beginning of the Rabinic corruption in this sad saga but rather the final straw that broke the camels back. The absolute & complete disregard for Halacha displayed in this case is nothing short of a tsunami. There were letters written by Gedolim that the husband in this case was mechyuv to give a get (absolutely false) and authorized rallies to publicly humiliate the husband as well as his family, tried to have him fired from his job. Gedolim signed onto a bogus Seruv along with Wolmark and company that was issued 100% shla k'halacha. The Silver Spring (DC) Vaad where the husband lives banned him from every shul in town based on that Serev, even though they knew that it was bogus. The wifes family as per testimony at the Mendel Epstein trial hired Mendel Epstein to kidnap and torture the husband to force him to give a get, they were unsuccessful as he was able to get away after they jumped him in the driveway of his former in-laws after dropping off his daughter on Tisha B'Av. I can go on but I won't. The Busha in this case belongs solely to ones responsible for the above mentioned actions. Nothing that can be said on this blog can add to their Busha.

I now have a better understanding to what Dovid Hamelach wrote in Tehillim 34:19-20 - Hashem is close to the brokenhearted & those crushed in spirit He saves. Many are the mishaps of the righteous but from them all Hashem rescues them.

As the Winston Churchill once said  A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. It's taken five years but the truth is dressed and ready to roll.

Offline Baruch

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #876 on: December 21, 2015, 08:04:21 PM »
Yep, both.  I think he's more well known in the yeshivish velt than you think..
+1.
@CBC. Try saying that he's unknown in the BMG coffee room, they''ll laugh you out of there. You simply are wrong.

Offline henche

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #877 on: December 21, 2015, 08:06:28 PM »
Yep, both.  I think he's more well known in the yeshivish velt than you thinkare..

FTFY

Offline Baruch

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #878 on: December 21, 2015, 08:09:31 PM »
Anybody in any field of rabanus (not a rabbi who give a shabbos morning drasha in a basment minyan) who deals in halachah knows of him and respects him in the highest regard.
That's the main point. The fact is that between Poskim, he's very respected. That's a fact.

Offline Baruch

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #879 on: December 21, 2015, 08:14:02 PM »




As to my qualifications to make this claim. I don't have any. I'm just talking from my experience and pretty decent (IMHO) knowledge of poskim and pesak.
You don't. Did you do any research?
As someone who hangs around Poskim, I can tell you, he was very respected.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 08:17:37 PM by Baruch »