The Tamar Epstein Saga

[churnbabychurn]

Letters from the eidah charedis and R N karelitz's Beis din are reportedly on the way.

[SayWhat]

Letters from the eidah charedis and R N karelitz's Beis din are reportedly on the way.

Sshh it's Lashon Hora nobody wants to hear if a Gadol was matir an Eshes Ish. We don't care about G-d's torah or what it says in it. We don't care if there is corruption. Please lets not jump to conclusions with every condemnation letter that comes. If you see something lets not say anything. Maybe if we just ignore this it will go away and everything will be ok. Ssshhhhh 

[aygart]

Sshh it's Lashon Hora nobody wants to hear if a Gadol was matir an Eshes Ish. We don't care about G-d's torah or what it says in it. We don't care if there is corruption. Please lets not jump to conclusions with every condemnation letter that comes. If you see something lets not say anything. Maybe if we just ignore this it will go away and everything will be ok. Ssshhhhh 

If you are so sure of the facts then why don't you at least have the courage to put your DDF persona (not even your real name) on the line instead of hiding? As I wrote before, you have stated absolutely zero in the way of fact or evidence and did nothing but speak against people who tower over you in a cowardly way.

If you have something more than inuendo that is a different story. You apparently do not. These letters have not spoken about these Roshei Yeshiva the way you did. That is part of what makes them Gedolim and you a piece of dirt.

Seems like you have a real axe to grind. Everyone has questions about what happened here, but you seem to be very eager to pile on. You sure you have no connection to the original ba'al?

[cs50]

Sshh it's Lashon Hora nobody wants to hear if a Gadol was matir an Eshes Ish. We don't care about G-d's torah or what it says in it. We don't care if there is corruption. Please lets not jump to conclusions with every condemnation letter that comes. If you see something lets not say anything. Maybe if we just ignore this it will go away and everything will be ok. Ssshhhhh

Wow....I don't think anyone had any issues with the letters that rabbonim have put out. They have every right to. They know how to write the letters a bakovdika way when referring to other rabbonim who they don't agree with. All letters that have been put out (except for one which was clearly written by a rav on the ex husbands side) have been written with the agenda of being machzik Halacha- not to wipe the floor with any rabbi who may have to with a heter for this unfortunate situation. So maybe try get your priorities straight before posting something.

[aygart]

All I see over here is a terrible story of some eishes ish going and getting married based upon her claiming a heter that everyone she is quoting denies having given it. It seems to me like all agree that teizei mizeh umizeh v'havlad mamzer. Yes she is being oiver on chiyuvei misa.  Because "it seems like someone was involved" means that everyone should be quiet and allow some human toilets to let out their sewage?

[churnbabychurn]

One thing this is definitely NOT (as one temimusdik philly talmid described it to me) "a machlokes gedolim".

But to make it sound like TE did this on her own without some  rabbinic support is just disingenuous. Someone is ultimately responsible.

[AJK]

Seems like you have a real axe to grind. Everyone has questions about what happened here, but you seem to be very eager to pile on. You sure you have no connection to the original ba'al?

#preach

[aygart]

One thing this is definitely NOT (as one temimusdik philly talmid described it to me) "a machlokes gedolim".

But to make it sound like TE did this on her own without some  rabbinic support is just disingenuous. Someone is ultimately responsible.

I will definitely agree that there is no machlokes which I see here. Based on what I see the most likely scenario is something along the lines that R Sholom spoke to R Nota with some hypotheticals which R Nota said can be  used as a heter if she meets certain conditions at which point she went and got married without having met those conditions claiming that she got a heter from him when she really did not.

[churnbabychurn]

I will definitely agree that there is no machlokes which I see here. Based on what I see the most likely scenario is something along the lines that R Sholom spoke to R Nota with some hypotheticals which R Nota said can be  used as a heter if she meets certain conditions at which point she went and got married without having met those conditions claiming that she got a heter from him when she really did not.

R Sholom spoke hypothetically to R Nota?
Why hypothetical?? This was a real live case that R Sholom was seeking a heter for. What was he trying to get by R Nota?

Either way, there is a stira between R Notas letter and R Aharon Feldman's report.
Plus, daas tora says he is publishing the letters between R Sholom and R Nota later, so we can wait and see if this was all hypothetical or not.

[avromie7]

R Sholom spoke hypothetically to R Nota?
Why hypothetical?? This was a real live case that R Sholom was seeking a heter for. What was he trying to get by R Nota?

Either way, there is a stira between R Notas letter and R Aharon Feldman's report.
Plus, daas tora says he is publishing the letters between R Sholom and R Nota later so we can wait and see if this was all hypothetical or not.

I have a feeling story this is about to go from bad to worse

[churnbabychurn]

R Sholom spoke hypothetically to R Nota?
Why hypothetical?? This was a real live case that R Sholom was seeking a heter for. What was he trying to get by R Nota?

Either way, there is a stira between R Notas letter and R Aharon Feldman's report.
Plus, daas tora says he is publishing the letters between R Sholom and R Nota later, so we can wait and see if this was all hypothetical or not.

Eta. They are up

http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2015/11/tamar-epsteins-heter-r-shlomo.html?m=1

[SayWhat]

I will definitely agree that there is no machlokes which I see here. Based on what I see the most likely scenario is something along the lines that R Sholom spoke to R Nota with some hypotheticals which R Nota said can be  used as a heter if she meets certain conditions at which point she went and got married without having met those conditions claiming that she got a heter from him when she really did not.

You are for sure right - this woman did this on her own and R Shalom had nothing to do with this - R Shalom probably doesn't even know her. My apologizes to all.

http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2015/11/tamar-epsteins-heter-r-shlomo.html

[aygart]

Eta. They are up

http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2015/11/tamar-epsteins-heter-r-shlomo.html?m=1

There are some differences in metzius between these letters and some which are anti-heter. These letters claim that the husband was seen by the doctors while others claim he was not. These claim there was a frum doctor involved while others claim there was not.

R Sholom spoke hypothetically to R Nota?
Why hypothetical?? This was a real live case that R Sholom was seeking a heter for. What was he trying to get by R Nota?

Either way, there is a stira between R Notas letter and R Aharon Feldman's report.
Plus, daas tora says he is publishing the letters between R Sholom and R Nota later, so we can wait and see if this was all hypothetical or not.

The way R Nota wote is that it was presented as "if she can prove ands cross the various hurdles what would they be"

[aygart]

You are for sure right - this woman did this on her own and R Shalom had nothing to do with this - R Shalom probably doesn't even know her. My apologizes to all.

http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2015/11/tamar-epsteins-heter-r-shlomo.html

Meanwhile we have not seen that anyone gave a final go ahead.

[churnbabychurn]

Meanwhile we have not seen that anyone gave a final go ahead.

R Sholom.

[aygart]

R Sholom.

Where?

[churnbabychurn]

There are some differences in metzius between these letters and some which are anti-heter. These letters claim that the husband was seen by the doctors while others claim he was not. These claim there was a frum doctor involved while others claim there was not.The way R Nota wote is that it was presented as "if she can prove ands cross the various hurdles what would they be"

The first letter is a follow up to R Nota after R Nota already gave a heter.
 In the follow up, R Sholom reports that there supposedly was a Dr that met the couple together, and heard the woman talking and saying over incidents that happened. - Even here R Sholom dosnt even imply that a Dr treated, dealt or properly diagnosed the husband at all.

[churnbabychurn]

Where?

Lol. Everywhere - this is his project.

[aygart]

Lol. Everywhere - this is his project.

There is no question of his involvment in the shakla vitarya-the question is whether he or anyone else gave a final shtemple. That I have not yet seen

[SayWhat]

All I see over here is a terrible story of some eishes ish going and getting married based upon her claiming a heter that everyone she is quoting denies having given it. It seems to me like all agree that teizei mizeh umizeh v'havlad mamzer. Yes she is being oiver on chiyuvei misa.  Because "it seems like someone was involved" means that everyone should be quiet and allow some human toilets to let out their sewage?

You have come a long way in an hour - you will figure it all out soon - I'll be patient with you