The Tamar Epstein Saga

[yuneeq]

I think everyone can agree here (no matter what their hashkafic backround and beliefs in Judaism) that we have to adhere to what the rabonim of our times say and tell us whether it sits well with us or not and we don't act on what we (non rabbis) think should be right.

The rabbonim have made it clear what's right and what's wrong.
As you have may have noticed, no rabbonim are defending the heter.

Anyone on this forum that thinks it's a mitzva do publicize this horrible story which has gone from bad to worse

Yes the rabbonim have said to do exactly just that.

and to call out talmidie chachamim (even if they did make mistakes)

That's the wrong thing to do, you can call them out for that.
Most participants here aren't doing that though.

[SayWhat]

I've been reading post after post for a long time now. I think everyone can agree here (no matter what their hashkafic backround and beliefs in Judaism) that we have to adhere to what the rabonim of our times say and tell us whether it sits well with us or not and we don't act on what we (non rabbis) think should be right. (If you are reading this and don't agree than just stop here and don't continue). Anyone on this forum that thinks it's a mitzva do publicize this horrible story which has gone from bad to worse and to call out talmidie chachamim (even if they did make mistakes) I challenge you...take this whole thread and show it to a real rav and have him read through it. If you think for one second he will commend you for how you are writing and for the great holy work you are doing here then kol hakovad. But I highly doubt you will get any real rav to tell you that (even if he is one that is involved in this story and is against the heter) and if you think you will get your blessing from that rav to continue in your holy work on this thread then I think you are living in a dream world.

If a mistake was made and corrected this would be a non-story. Basing a heter and lies is not a mistake. Refusing to retract when proven wrong is not a sign of greatness.

This reminds me of the old lady that calls up her husband whose driving on the highway to warn him that she heard on the radio that there is someone driving the wrong way on the highway. He responds there's not just one car driving the wrong way but everyone is driving the wrong way.

At some point you have to realize that it might be you that is going the wrong way

[yuneeq]

if you are truly concerned with the lies being spread and you really want the truth to come out, go speak to your rav and discuss with him, what avenue can be used to announce this to the public. if he says it should be continued to be done in this manner, so be it

If you truly concerned with the outcome of this thread, go speak to your rav and discuss with him, what avenue can be used to announce the horribleness of this thread to the public. if he says the thread should stay opened, so be it.

[Ergel]

We go round and round in circles...

[cs50]

The rabbonim have made it clear what's right and what's wrong.
As you have may have noticed, no rabbonim are defending the heter.

Yes the rabbonim have said to do exactly just that.

That's the wrong thing to do, you can call them out for that.
Most participants here aren't doing that though.

You didn't answer my question. Show this whole thread to a real rav and see what he says about how this thread is being conducted. You will not get the green light to continue it. But I guess that's why you didn't answer that part of my post because you know that that's the answer.

[aygart]

That's the wrong thing to do, you can call them out for that.
Most participants here aren't doing that though.

But some are and you you look well enough you will see that those are the comments that people are taking issue with and which you are defending.

[Baruch]

@Baruch reinforces the notion that it cant be wrong because RNG is "the gadol hador leinyoney gittin" (a new title created in this thread nonetheless!).

How many times to I have to repeat myself?
I never said the heter is valid because RNG is the #1 Rav in America in Gittin.

I said, that I can hear why Tamar may be mutar labo'el, after she receives a get, because she was following RNG and RSK.

[aygart]

If a mistake was made and corrected this would be a non-story. Basing a heter and lies is not a mistake. Refusing to retract when proven wrong is not a sign of greatness.

This reminds me of the old lady that calls up her husband whose driving on the highway to warn him that she heard on the radio that there is someone driving the wrong way on the highway. He responds there's not just one car driving the wrong way but everyone is driving the wrong way.

At some point you have to realize that it might be you that is going the wrong way

Did you even read what cs50 wrote or in your very apparently biased view of the story (at this point I like many others do not believe you that you have nothing to do with the story) you just attack anyone who has an issue with any small part of the husband's side without thinking?

[SayWhat]

Did you even read what cs50 wrote or in your very apparently biased view of the story (at this point I like many others do not believe you that you have nothing to do with the story) you just attack anyone who has an issue with any small part of the husband's side without thinking?

Oy boy you again. What specifically did I say that you found offensive?

[yuneeq]

You didn't answer my question. Show this whole thread to a real rav and see what he says about how this thread is being conducted. You will not get the green light to continue it. But I guess that's why you didn't answer that part of my post because you know that that's the answer.

Is your point is that it's not a mitzvah to publicize because this thread is wrong (in your opinion)?
This thread doesn't change what the rabbonim have clearly said. If this thread is wrong then its assur for you to be posting here and reading it.
Did you ask your rav if you can be here, or are you just trolling?

But some are and you you look well enough you will see that those are the comments that people are taking issue with and which you are defending.

That's not true.
I'm not defending anyone.
Everyone is on the attack here, many are either attacking the messenger or creating straw men.
If you want to correct someone, do it the right way, or else you end up giving the other posters more validity.

[aygart]

How many times to I have to repeat myself?
I never said the heter is valid because RNG is the #1 Rav in America in Gittin.

I said, that I can hear why Tamar may be mutar labo'el, after she receives a get, because she was following RNG and RSK.

You don't get it yet? They (the ones you are referring to) are either very firmly on his side for reasons which have nothing to do with halacha or are enjoying talking about talmidei chachamim

[AJK]

There seems to be two schools of thought here.  (there are many others but theses are the mainstream)

a) AJK, Baruch etc. who believe that although the heter makes no sense to them, this situation goes into the category of "omrim lecha al semol shehu yemin".  AKA, it cannot be that a serious wrong doing was committed. @Baruch reinforces the notion that it cant be wrong because RNG is "the gadol hador leinyoney gittin" (a new title created in this thread nonetheless!).

Wow, maybe I'm just not being clear where I stand, or perhaps you're just so doggedly determined to further your agenda that you've become blind to what I'm saying. Who really knows, but I do have my suspicions that it's likely the latter.

For the umpteenth time, ye who takes the burden of klal yisroel's future on his back (heroically assisted by "Say What"), I don't know what the truth is. I don't know where this will end up. But I can assure you that the people on this thread who have dragged through the mud and disrespected the particular rabbanim will have what to answer for.

One doesn't get to slew dirt on rabbanim of impeccable history and character with impunity.

I've said it once, I'll say it AGAIN:

[N]o one is saying Rabbis are infallible, but in some cases, these rabbis have a *lifetime* behind them of learning, sacrificing, and helping the klal. The least some of you faceless rumor mongers can do is afford them a bit of respect and benefit of the doubt considering their history.

The truth will come out one way or the other. It's not your jobs to spit venom on the backs of people that are undoubtedly greater than you.

[cs50]

Is your point is that it's not a mitzvah to publicize because this thread is wrong (in your opinion)?
This thread doesn't change what the rabbonim have clearly said. If this thread is wrong then its assur for you to be posting here and reading it.
Did you ask your rav if you can be here, or are you just trolling?

That's not true.
I'm not defending anyone.
Everyone is on the attack here, many are either attacking the messenger or creating straw men.
If you want to correct someone, do it the right way, or else you end up giving the other posters more validity.

My point is the tone of that is being used in this thread is not the proper tone that should be use and that no rav will tell you otherwise. That's all. Do you agree or disagree with me.

[aygart]

Oy boy you again. What specifically did I say that you found offensive?

My point is the tone of that is being used in this thread is not the proper tone that should be use and that no rav will tell you otherwise. That's all. Do you agree or disagree with me.

[aygart]

Oy boy you again.

Many here are saying the same when they see your posts. We all understand that your position is that only you and those who agree with what you say and how you say it may have an opinion.

[SayWhat]

Many here are saying the same when they see your posts. We all understand that your position is that only you and those who agree with what you say and how you say it may have an opinion.

I apologize if that is how you feel. Please feel free to post your opinion.

[Aaaron]

When lies are spread around for years there needs to be a forum for the truth to come out on. Like I said the truth is just getting geared up there is no telling whose door step it will show up on. If it makes you feel better go stick your head in the sand.

Isn't there already a forum for your truth:  the "daas torah" blog?

[SayWhat]

Isn't there already a forum for your truth:  the "daas torah" blog?

Is there more than one truth?

[Aaaron]

Is there more than one truth?

As they say, there's his side, her side, and the truth, which usually falls somewhere in between.  You're the only one who speaks of knowing "the truth."

[Drago]

Me

I'll pm a 1-900 number. Low rate per minute.