The Tamar Epstein Saga

[Super Speed]

Oh, I get it. You think Rabbis Greenblatt and Kaminetzky *knew* the report was bogus. And then used that allegedly false report to issue a heter, despite their knowledge of its apparent bogus provenance. Got it.

Thanks for clarifying.

Why is that so hard to comprehend? It's no secret that Shalom Kamenetsky isn't the straightest guy out there. He was the one who started this and got his father and R' Nota involved.

[SayWhat]

Agreed. I had a long sit down with a member of the Baltimore Beis Din this past week and I completely agree with you.

After your long talk with a member of the Baltimore Bais Din - the posting of a page with some of her thoughts is the only thing that disturbed you about this case?

[churnbabychurn]

Well, I ask you:Since you seem to feel you know all the ins and outs and know that there can be no explanation other than your conspiracy theory, why do you think they did this? Why would two ninety year olds who spent their lives being marbitz Torah suddenly now go and maliciously encourage a woman who they know is a full fledged eishes ish to marry someone? Why would they intentionally make up false reports? If they are so egregious why wouldn't they just tell her forget about the whole get thing who cares? Forget about emunas chachomim, it makes no logical sense at all.

When and where did I imply I know any facts or "ins and outs"?
You continuously make assertions and the present your arguments.
-1

[aygart]

When and where did I imply I know any facts or "ins and outs"?
You continuously make assertions and the present your arguments.
-1

Only about a hundred times in this thread including the one I was replying to. When you imply that there can be no explanation other than your preferred conspiracy that means that you feel you know enough of the facts to say that...... I am simply asking questions most of which have not been answered. If you find an assertion I made I will retract it.

[churnbabychurn]

Only about a hundred times in this thread including the one I was replying to. When you imply that there can be no explanation other than your preferred conspiracy that means that you feel you know enough of the facts to say that...... I am simply asking questions most of which have not been answered. If you find an assertion I made I will retract it.

I didnt imply anything of the sort.

I have many questions and no answers.

I was asking AJK if he has the answers, or simply doesn't have any questions.

[Ergel]

I didnt imply anything of the sort.

I have many questions and no answers.

I was asking AJK if he has the answers, or simply doesn't have any questions.

Neither. But he isn't jumping to conclusions based on those questions

[AJK]

You're deflecting one accusation for another.
Not doing due diligence before mattiring an eishes ish is also pretty bad.

I'm not deflecting anything.

For the thousandth time, I don't know the facts, but I do know Rabbi Greenblatt. And there ain't no way God's green earth he deliberately and knowingly relied on a purportedly bogus report.

Even such an insinuation, let alone direct implication, from a peon on the internets, is laughable.

Neither. But he isn't jumping to conclusions based on those questions

You should have been a lawyer.

[aygart]

I didnt imply anything of the sort.

I have many questions and no answers.

I was asking AJK if he has the answers, or simply doesn't have any questions.

read your own posts and you will see that you are writing conclusions you jumped to and questioning anyone who asks questions. Quite the opposite of what you are representing yourself as having done.

[churnbabychurn]

read your own posts and you will see that you are writing conclusions you jumped to and questioning anyone who asks questions. Quite the opposite of what you are representing yourself as having done.

Nah, - you can quote my actual posts next time you want to accuse, or try to put words in my mouth, or suggest what my intentions are, or what you think I am doing etc.

Otherwise just quit addressing me here at all.

The way if works is that you quote what I actually say, only then can you discuss my posts.

Tia

[aygart]

Lets get some history here.
The wife waged a very public campaign against the husband which included rallies, facebook pages, billboard ads, all the major news outlets ran stories (including NY Times, Fox etc...) She hired Mendel Epstein and company to beat him (as per testimony during the trial) but he got away. After all that didn't work she releases a statement through ORA saying that she is Free.

(I might add that all of this was done after she walked out of Bais Din as stated publicly by the Av Bais Din in their case)

So she was the one that made this into a public spectacle by going to the Press etc.. If she is going to defame him in public he should be allowed to defend himself in public.

Most of this is irrelevant to whether or not she publicly shamed him. If there are news articles etc please link to them or it is a fair assumption that they do not exist.

She declared she was free and it was very obvious that she hadn't received a get - any other ways to be free?

[Ergel]

You should have been a lawyer.

I don't envy you guys
In the middle of a big project so had to leave the office late recently. Got home around 630

[SayWhat]

Most of this is irrelevant to whether or not she publicly shamed him. If there are news articles etc please link to them or it is a fair assumption that they do not exist.

Really you don't know how to use Google?

NY Times, Washington Post, Politico, Hugington Post, Fox - is that sufficient enough for you?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/04/us/04divorce.html?_r=0
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2012/03/rep_dave_camp_can_t_order_aide_aharon_friedman_to_give_his_wife_a_jewish_divorce_.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/man-who-wont-grant-religious-divorce-to-ex-wife-is-given-rabbinical-sanction/2011/09/27/gIQAU8SS8K_story.html
http://www.politico.com/story/2012/02/social-media-blitz-hits-congressman-073309
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-jason-miller/compelling-jewish-men-to-_b_1306198.html
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/29/congressman-facing-pressure-from-jewish-groups-on-advisers-religious-divorce.html
http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2010/12/hundreds-rally-for-chained-woman-while-others-support-husband-345.html

[SayWhat]

Most of this is irrelevant to whether or not she publicly shamed him. If there are news articles etc please link to them or it is a fair assumption that they do not exist.

It is relevant whether or not she publicly shamed him because it was done with the backing of the same Rabbi that supported the Heter - neither of which has any basis in Halacha. Read the article in the link below
"Complicating matters, however, is that no beit din, or religious court, has ordered Friedman to issue Epstein a get. Initially, the case was being handled by the Baltimore beit din, a proceeding that was apparently halted when the secular courts took up the matter."
"Currently, the Epstein-Friedman case remains open but dormant, as "neither party has approached" the Baltimore beit din, requesting that it reconvene, according to Rabbi Mordechai Shuchatowitz, a rabbi on the court.

"Right now," he said, "the ball is in [Epstein's] court" because, as the party seeking the get, she is responsible for reinitiating proceedings.

Since the court has yet officially to order a get, Shuchatowitz said, it's "a bit premature" to be holding rallies and other events meant "to pressure [Friedman] because he's not been given his day in court." After all, "you can't disobey something you've not been told to do.""

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2010/12/hundreds-rally-for-chained-woman-while-others-support-husband-345.html

[aygart]

Really you don't know how to use Google?

NY Times, Washington Post, Politico, Hugington Post, Fox - is that sufficient enough for you?

None of these are a

Source that she publicly claimed he's crazy?

as you claimed.

It was part of official court records which are public (according to the website). If she is going to publicly claim that he is crazy he should be able to defend himself in the same manor. What's good for the goose is good for the gander

So the question remains

When did she publicize any claim?

[Baruch]

It is relevant whether or not she publicly shamed him because it was done with the backing of the same Rabbi that supported the Heter - neither of which has any basis in Halacha. Read the article in the link below
"Complicating matters, however, is that no beit din, or religious court, has ordered Friedman to issue Epstein a get. Initially, the case was being handled by the Baltimore beit din, a proceeding that was apparently halted when the secular courts took up the matter."
"Currently, the Epstein-Friedman case remains open but dormant, as "neither party has approached" the Baltimore beit din, requesting that it reconvene, according to Rabbi Mordechai Shuchatowitz, a rabbi on the court.

"Right now," he said, "the ball is in [Epstein's] court" because, as the party seeking the get, she is responsible for reinitiating proceedings.

Since the court has yet officially to order a get, Shuchatowitz said, it's "a bit premature" to be holding rallies and other events meant "to pressure [Friedman] because he's not been given his day in court." After all, "you can't disobey something you've not been told to do.""

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2010/12/hundreds-rally-for-chained-woman-while-others-support-husband-345.html

There's an unwritten DDF rule never to link that mamzer's website.

[aygart]

There's an unwritten DDF rule never to link that mamzer's website.

definitely not to consider it to be authoritative in any way shape or form.

[SayWhat]

There's an unwritten DDF rule never to link that mamzer's website.

I agree with you however the original article is no longer available on the original website

[SayWhat]

definitely not to consider it to be authoritative in any way shape or form.

It's not his article - it's an article from the Washington jewish week that he posted

[yuneeq]

None of these are aas you claimed.
So the question remains

Let's get real.

She is living with another man after convincing a therapist that he's crazy.
She is very much a part of her campaign to defame AF.
She went heter shopping by telling rabbis he's crazy.
She then got rabbis to sign that he's crazy in every aspect.

This is all in addition to the other wrongdoings that she has committed like fleeing BD,
paying to beat him up, fleeing the state, and etc.

Why are we still defending this lowlife?

[bk73]

A shmooze from R Mendel Bodsky Rezav regarding those that are mezalzel the gedolim and what the proper response should be.
https://daistorah.wordpress.com/