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הוי זהיר בגחלתם שלא תכוה, שנשיכתן נשיכת שועל ועקיצתן עקיצת עקרב, ולחישתן לחישת שרף, וכל דבריהם כגחלי אש

« Last edited by Baruch on March 30, 2016, 01:00:08 PM »

Author Topic: The Tamar Epstein Saga  (Read 280950 times)

Offline yuneeq

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1540 on: March 29, 2016, 10:19:50 PM »
If someone would make a new identity and talk like a mensch I would have no problem and I have discussed with them. The issue is when they do so to their insults even if there is some substance interspersed with it. It also shows that they are blinded by some sort of agenda even when they do write substance.

So please explain why you attacked the original post here:
http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=57263.msg1444628#msg1444628
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Offline AJK

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1541 on: March 29, 2016, 10:20:11 PM »
If someone would make a new identity and talk like a mensch I would have no problem and I have discussed with them. The issue is when they do so to their insults even if there is some substance interspersed with it. It also shows that they are blinded by some sort of agenda even when they do write substance.

The key point here. That's all I'm asking for.
I agree, just talk like a mensch

Yup. Been my position from day one, yet among Say What, yesitsme83, and now Avrumi#1 (and others who have quieted down), I'm not sure they understand the concept.

For posterity, and to clarify which should not need any clarification, my position:

Wow, maybe I'm just not being clear where I stand, or perhaps you're just so doggedly determined to further your agenda that you've become blind to what I'm saying. Who really knows, but I do have my suspicions that it's likely the latter.

For the umpteenth time, ye who takes the burden of klal yisroel's future on his back (heroically assisted by "Say What"), I don't know what the truth is. I don't know where this will end up. But I can assure you that the people on this thread who have dragged through the mud and disrespected the particular rabbanim will have what to answer for.

One doesn't get to slew dirt on rabbanim of impeccable history and character with impunity.

I've said it once, I'll say it AGAIN:

[N]o one is saying Rabbis are infallible, but in some cases, these rabbis have a *lifetime* behind them of learning, sacrificing, and helping the klal. The least some of you faceless rumor mongers can do is afford them a bit of respect and benefit of the doubt considering their history.

The truth will come out one way or the other. It's not your jobs to spit venom on the backs of people that are undoubtedly greater than you.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1542 on: March 29, 2016, 10:23:29 PM »
Yup. Been my position from day one, yet among Say What, yesitsme83, and now Avrumi#1 (and others who have quieted down), I'm not sure they understand the concept.

For posterity, and to clarify which should not need any clarification, my position:

For the umpteenth time, ye who takes the burden of klal yisroel's future on his back (heroically assisted by "Say What"), I don't know what the truth is. I don't know where this will end up. But I can assure you that the people on this thread who have dragged through the mud and disrespected the particular rabbanim will have what to answer for.

I know you write poetically and sound really intelligent, but you must be the only person in the world who still doesn't know the truth.
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Offline AJK

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1543 on: March 29, 2016, 10:25:26 PM »
Unfortunately AJK and others get carried away by the fact that someone posted anonymously (call 911!! Someone posted anonymously on the internet!!) and attack the person instead of what they say. And unfortunately, AJK's reputation on this forum is convincing people to side with him even though he sounds absolutely ridiculous in this thread (seriously, find me one post of his that's on topic and is not involved in ad hominem attacks), while ironically calling posters hypocritical for not signing their name on every post.

I won't even pretend to understand what the bold portion is trying to convey, but I just quoted a post that was soundly based in logic.  If you take offense to my position, that doesn't make it ad hominem, it makes you sensitive.
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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1544 on: March 29, 2016, 10:27:34 PM »
So please explain why you attacked the original post here:
http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=57263.msg1444628#msg1444628
Where did I? Besides the tone of that post is no great shakes and


It shows that you yourself do not believe what you are saying to place at a minimum your DDF reputation on the line.

Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline AJK

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1545 on: March 29, 2016, 10:28:17 PM »
I know you write poetically and sound really intelligent, but you must be the only person in the world who still doesn't know the truth.

Well, then by all means, you and your cohorts have carte blance to spit venom on all the Rabbis in question.

But I'm not about to let you get upstairs after 120 and beg for mercy, crying "but no one told me what I was doing was disrespectful, offensive, and demeaning!"
« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 10:32:37 PM by AJK »
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1546 on: March 29, 2016, 10:32:17 PM »
Well, then by all means, you and your cohorts have carte blance to spit venom on all the Rabbis in question.

But I'm not about to let you get upstairs after 120 and beg for mercy because "no one told me what I was doing was disrespectful, offensive, and demeaning!"

The answer is that some rabbonim at the minimum made a big mistake.
That is the truth. You cannot accept the truth, fine by me.

Though it's interesting that everyone else here thinks that stating "the rabbonim made a mistake" is beating a dead horse, while you still have no idea if that's true.
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Offline Baruch

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1547 on: March 29, 2016, 10:32:31 PM »
Well, then by all means, you and your cohorts have carte blance to spit venom on all the Rabbis in question.

But I'm not about to let you get upstairs after 120 and beg for mercy because "no one told me what I was doing was disrespectful, offensive, and demeaning!"
@Yuneeq, again AJK wrote poetically and intelligently.
But this time he brought up a frightening question.
One of the most chamur aveiros is mevazeh talmid chacham. Are you so confident that those that talk disrespectfully about RSK and RNG, won't be punished?

Offline yesitsme83

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1548 on: March 29, 2016, 10:32:59 PM »
I agree, just talk like a mensch
Sudden change of tune. So the new username doesn't bother you, only what they say? Why didn't you say that before? What about before people used any mildly objectionable language. Please don't insult our intelligence by backtracking like this.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1549 on: March 29, 2016, 10:33:46 PM »
@Yuneeq, again AJK wrote poetically and intelligently.
But this time he brought up a frightening question.
One of the most chamur aveiros is mevazeh talmid chacham. Are you so confident that those that talk disrespectfully about RSK and RNG, won't be punished?

No I'm not sure. But if that's your issue, protest their words and not their persona.
We're on an anonymous forum after all.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1550 on: March 29, 2016, 10:34:27 PM »
Where did I? Besides the tone of that post is no great shakes and

http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=57263.msg1444841#msg1444841
Only thing that matters is his new username apparently, not whether he talks like a mensch.
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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1551 on: March 29, 2016, 10:34:44 PM »
Sudden change of tune. So the new username doesn't bother you, only what they say? Why didn't you say that before? What about before people used any mildly objectionable language. Please don't insult our intelligence by backtracking like this.
That before hasn't yet happened. I still would take it with a mound of salt though.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline AJK

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1552 on: March 29, 2016, 10:35:25 PM »
Is this what people like to do ?!?!?!
Create new usernames, so they can let out some inner animosity that they have towards some of the most helpful people on ddf.

Stop coming here and insult DDFers.
To quote a first class nutcase (Trump) - "get him outta here".

Thanks, guys. And to the other half dozen people who have PM'd me encouraging me to keep fighting the good fight. (Though, really, I just suggest creating another DDF name and stating your feelings here yourself. You wouldn't be the first  ;D)
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Offline yesitsme83

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1553 on: March 29, 2016, 10:36:25 PM »
Well, then by all means, you and your cohorts have carte blance to spit venom on all the Rabbis in question.

But I'm not about to let you get upstairs after 120 and beg for mercy, crying "but no one told me what I was doing was disrespectful, offensive, and demeaning!"
Actually some of us don't hold the "rabbis in question" in very high regard, neither as talmidei chachamim of note, nor as straight people.

Contrary to what you might have been taught in first grade, not every 70 year old with a long beard is a talmid chacham about whom you can't speak.

As I've said before, we're not talking about Rav Elyashiv here or anyone of (or even close to) his caliber. We're talking about American Roshei Yeshiva who some people regard highly, some people don't. So poof-there goes your argument.

PS As I've mentioned before I think RNG is not included in the above.

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1554 on: March 29, 2016, 10:36:55 PM »
http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=57263.msg1444841#msg1444841
Only thing that matters is his new username apparently, not whether he talks like a mensch.
That is an attack?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Baruch

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1555 on: March 29, 2016, 10:38:18 PM »
No I'm not sure. But if that's your issue, protest their words and not their persona.
We're on an anonymous forum after all.
No one here is defending the heter.
We're defending the honor of Talmidei Chachamim.

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1556 on: March 29, 2016, 10:38:18 PM »
Actually some of us don't hold the "rabbis in question" in very high regard, neither as talmidei chachamim of note, nor as straight people.

Contrary to what you might have been taught in first grade, not every 70 year old with a long beard is a talmid chacham about whom you can't speak.

As I've said before, we're not talking about Rav Elyashiv here or anyone of (or even close to) his caliber. We're talking about American Roshei Yeshiva who some people regard highly, some people don't. So poof-there goes your argument.

PS As I've mentioned before I think RNG is not included in the above.
Have you ever spoken with R Shmuel in learning to know?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline yesitsme83

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1557 on: March 29, 2016, 10:38:54 PM »
http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=57263.msg1444841#msg1444841
Only thing that matters is his new username apparently, not whether he talks like a mensch.
Please stop presenting the facts they're just really inconvenient little things.

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1558 on: March 29, 2016, 10:39:23 PM »


Actually some of us don't hold the "rabbis in question" in very high regard, neither as talmidei chachamim of note, nor as straight people.

Contrary to what you might have been taught in first grade, not every 70 year old with a long beard is a talmid chacham about whom you can't speak.

As I've said before, we're not talking about Rav Elyashiv here or anyone of (or even close to) his caliber. We're talking about American Roshei Yeshiva who some people regard highly, some people don't. So poof-there goes your argument.

PS As I've mentioned before I think RNG is not included in the above.
So now you have the pleitzus to decide you is a talmid chacham and who isn't ?!?!

Life is as good as you make it...

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1559 on: March 29, 2016, 10:40:04 PM »
Please stop presenting the facts they're just really inconvenient little things.
You haven't yet mentioned one fact not written one sentence like a mensch
Feelings don't care about your facts