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הוי זהיר בגחלתם שלא תכוה, שנשיכתן נשיכת שועל ועקיצתן עקיצת עקרב, ולחישתן לחישת שרף, וכל דבריהם כגחלי אש

« Last edited by Baruch on March 30, 2016, 01:00:08 PM »

Author Topic: The Tamar Epstein Saga  (Read 281192 times)

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1580 on: March 29, 2016, 11:32:09 PM »



BTW, we don't either defend Adam and Chava eating from the eitz hadaas, or David for Batsheva. Nor Moshe for hitting the rock. Or the shevatim for selling Yosef.
You're really comparing this to those?

Amazing


Offline Baruch

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1581 on: March 29, 2016, 11:40:29 PM »
You're really comparing this to those?

Amazing
No. I'm not comparing the 2.
What I'm comparing is that when someone makes a mistake, his whole lifetime of greatness doesn't come crashing down.
Don't be a fool and think it's cool to start calling Rav Shmuel by just his last name. It ain't cool, and you're risking some serious hell.
 והוי זהיר בגחלתן שלא תכוה

(BTW, I'm not accusing you of that, but I'm sure the anonymousers do just that)

Offline rileywiles23

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1582 on: March 29, 2016, 11:48:19 PM »
How observant of you. As I've stated, I know quite a bit about the people and goings on here. If I didn't, I wouldn't be as critical. In fact, I know you and AJK  ;D ;D ;D (though not personally)! But no more beans will be spilled tonight.
Sorry just had to come back on to note this when the irony of the situation struck me.
Why you spending so much time on ddf ?!?!
Don't you have a life ?!?!?
Go do something productive !!!!
Life is as good as you make it...

Offline Avrumi#1

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1583 on: March 30, 2016, 01:09:10 AM »
You have serious reading comprehension issues.

Thank you for your free diagnosis. It is irrelevant. It does not bolster your argument.

Quote
He wrote that the heter had no validity.

Please read it carefully. He says that he handed over Rav Dovid Feinstein's Beis Din's psak "that it has no validity. It will be great if they listen."

 All he is saying is that RDF paskened that it has no validity. He does not say himself that it has no validity. Which means, RDF's psak is one opinion. RNG's psak is a different opinion. It would be great if they follow RDF, but it is optional.

In order to aid my reading comprehension, when you reply to my post, please just stick to the issue. I understand that my post can be frustrating. You know, throwing in a diagnosis just makes it even more confusing.

Offline Avrumi#1

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1584 on: March 30, 2016, 01:11:20 AM »
Those letters were not posted by you. All you did was regurgitate what was discussed before.

I am discussing a new aspect which is fresh - namely the rumor of non-compliance. (I do hope that the rumor is a complete falsehood.)

Offline Avrumi#1

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1585 on: March 30, 2016, 01:12:05 AM »
+10000
Now I understand why you needed a new name

I certainly do not understand what you wrote here.

Offline Avrumi#1

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1586 on: March 30, 2016, 01:14:27 AM »
Is this what people like to do ?!?!?!
Create new usernames, so they can let out some inner animosity that they have towards some of the most helpful people on ddf.

Inner animosity? Please explain. I was attacked. I dared defend my post. >:( oy! ???

Offline Avrumi#1

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1587 on: March 30, 2016, 01:15:29 AM »
I see you're not following the convo but the anonymous posters were discussing the topic of the thread while being called out for being anonymous. Not sure where you saw otherwise.

Thank you.

Offline Avrumi#1

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1588 on: March 30, 2016, 01:20:34 AM »
If he would be making a point that would be one thing. He didn't. All he did was repeat things already discussed ad nauseam.

I've answered that one already. 

Quote
He came and just started writing rudely to and about everyone.

Really? For daring to defend my position? Please go up-thread and reread how I was attacked for being anonymous. I was call a hypocrite for asking a question.

Quote
That is exactly why he needed a new username. So he can throw around insults and not be held accountable even within the forum. No other reason. Don't convince yourself otherwise.

Buddy, as soon as you use your real name, you'll be able to make this ridiculous assertion. Until then, please don't throw stones out of your brick house.

Offline Avrumi#1

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1589 on: March 30, 2016, 01:21:52 AM »
Further proof that no one cares about what is said here but rather who's saying it.

+1000

Offline Avrumi#1

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1590 on: March 30, 2016, 01:23:53 AM »
If someone would make a new identity and talk like a mensch I would have no problem and I have discussed with them. The issue is when they do so to their insults even if there is some substance interspersed with it. It also shows that they are blinded by some sort of agenda even when they do write substance.

New and improved argument? Are you referring to me? What agenda do you think I have?

Offline David Smith

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1591 on: March 30, 2016, 01:33:40 AM »
This entire thread was a disastrous mistake that never had a chance, IMO.

1) This story has nothing to do with almost everyone here. They are in no way involved, and it has almost zero impact on them. This isn't about using an eruv, drinking water or orange juice, eating fish or meat, wearing sheitals, or anything like that. This  specific story has almost zero impact on almost anybody here, and people have zero reason to be involved.

2) Even if it did have anything to do with you, is anyone here poskim or ma'an di'amrim on this case?! Some of the biggest poskim in the world are involved in this. Who does anyone here think they are to be putting in their personal opinions?!
What was the point of this thread; just to "hock"? It had zero constructive purpose, and stood to be a conduit of nothing positive.

This never stood any purpose but lashon hara. But that one capability that it did have; it fulfilled to the utmost. Some of the things that were said here.....

Being as there is nothing good and only bad that could have come out; has come out; and will come out of this thread; I wish it would be closed for comments or deleted. If anybody has any even ha'ezer questions, they can discuss it with their LOR and posek.

Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Offline Avrumi#1

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1592 on: March 30, 2016, 01:41:37 AM »
Well, then by all means, you and your cohorts have carte blance to spit venom on all the Rabbis in question.

Spit venom? Please explain.

 

Offline Super Speed

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1593 on: March 30, 2016, 01:44:30 AM »


This entire thread was a disastrous mistake that never had a chance, IMO.

1) This story has nothing to do with almost everyone here. They are in no way involved, and it has almost zero impact on them. This isn't about using an eruv, drinking water or orange juice, eating fish or meat, wearing sheitals, or anything like that. This  specific story has almost zero impact on almost anybody here, and people have zero reason to be involved.

-infinity
If there was an Eishes Ish that got an invalid Heter (I'm not getting involved whether that's the case here) then every single person who has a Bris should stand up and be Moche. What do you mean not nogea it's a HUGE pirtza in Klal Yisroel.

Offline David Smith

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1594 on: March 30, 2016, 01:52:10 AM »

-infinity
If there was an Eishes Ish that got an invalid Heter (I'm not getting involved whether that's the case here) then every single person who has a Bris should stand up and be Moche. What do you mean not nogea it's a HUGE pirtza in Klal Yisroel.

How does discussing your opinion of the Rabbanim involved help that?

Do you really think that discussing this here is called being mocheh, or that your machaa has any toeles? Besides, the question is not whether or not the heter of mekach taus exists. It's a question of whether or not it applies in this case. Once the question is the  specific case at hand, and not a general concept, them having a bunch of people with zero say and zero impact blabbing about the story lelo shum toeles is not a machah (lshem shamayim or not), it's stam lashon hara.

And there are people being mechallel shabbos befarhesia every week, plenty of people being mezaneh and intermarrying all over the place, and every aveirah under the sun being committed on a constant basis. I don't hear you being mocheh.
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Offline Super Speed

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1595 on: March 30, 2016, 01:59:20 AM »
How does discussing your opinion of the Rabbanim involved help that?

Do you really think that discussing this here is called being mocheh, or that your machaa has any toeles? Besides, the question is not whether or not the heter of mekach taus exists. It's a question of whether or not it applies in this case. Once the question is the  specific case at hand, and not a general concept, them having a bunch of people with zero say and zero impact blabbing about the story lelo shum toeles is not a machah (lshem shamayim or not), it's stam lashon hara.

And there are people being mechallel shabbos befarhesia every week, plenty of people being mezaneh and intermarrying all over the place, and every aveirah under the sun being committed on a constant basis. I don't hear you being mocheh.
I honestly do not want to get caught up in this conversation. All I was pointing out that if the Heter is indeed invalid then no one can stand by the wayside and let it just go like another Aveirah. If you can't see the difference between someone being Mechalel Shabbos and a Heter Eishes Ish Bli Get then I can't help you. Again I was just refuting your original point that says it's no one's business, if something was done wrong here then you must be Moche and I wasn't saying this thread is the proper way to be Moche either.

Offline David Smith

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1596 on: March 30, 2016, 02:00:04 AM »


Actually some of us don't hold the "rabbis in question" in very high regard, neither as talmidei chachamim of note, nor as straight people.

Contrary to what you might have been taught in first grade, not every 70 year old with a long beard is a talmid chacham about whom you can't speak.

As I've said before, we're not talking about Rav Elyashiv here or anyone of (or even close to) his caliber. We're talking about American Roshei Yeshiva who some people regard highly, some people don't. So poof-there goes your argument.

PS As I've mentioned before I think RNG is not included in the above.

Disclaimer: I want to have no association to the likes of this disgusting abomination.

People have spoken about the need to be mocheh a pirtzah in klal yisroel, I'm being mocheh this brazen lack of kavod talmidei chachmim, kavod hatorah, and kavod shamayim right now.
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Offline David Smith

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1597 on: March 30, 2016, 02:04:52 AM »
I honestly do not want to get caught up in this conversation. All I was pointing out that if the Heter is indeed invalid then no one can stand by the wayside and let it just go like another Aveirah. If you can't see the difference between someone being Mechalel Shabbos and a Heter Eishes Ish Bli Get then I can't help you. Again I was just refuting your original point that says it's no one's business, if something was done wrong here then you must be Moche and I wasn't saying this thread is the proper way to be Moche either.

What's the difference between chillul shabbos and eishes ish, may I ask you? Why does one warrant your machah more than the other? And there are plenty of people being oiver on kol harayos chamuros (bechol prateha, dikdukeha, vetoeivoseha). I don't see how this anybody sticking in their opinion qualifies as a machah, or what your machah over here or anywhere this is being discussed stands to accomplish.
If there was no heter here, and she just decided that she was done with frumkeit and wants to marry someone without a get, you wouldn't bat an eyelash.
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Offline Super Speed

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1598 on: March 30, 2016, 02:07:30 AM »

What's the difference between chillul shabbos and eishes ish, may I ask you? Why does one warrant your machah more than the other? And there are plenty of people being oiver on kol harayos chamuros (bechol prateha, dikdukeha, vetoeivoseha). I don't see how this anybody sticking in their opinion qualifies as a machah, or what your machah over here or anywhere this is being discussed stands to accomplish.
I feel if I continue to discuss this I will get sucked into the rest of the discussions going on in this thread and by no means do I want to take part in it. So if you really want to understand, you can PM me otherwise I'm out.

Offline David Smith

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Re: The Tamar Epstein Saga
« Reply #1599 on: March 30, 2016, 02:13:42 AM »
I feel if I continue to discuss this I will get sucked into the rest of the discussions going on in this thread and by no means do I want to take part in it. So if you really want to understand, you can PM me otherwise I'm out.
I feel no need to PM you. I stand by my point that this thread stands to accomplish nothing. I don't think a single person posting here is stupid or delusional enough to claim or think to be posting here lshem shamayim because they think it will stop someone from being mezaneh.
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ