Poll

Should I Tow?

Yes! Tow It!
Pour Oil and Push The Car
Give Him/her A Chance

Author Topic: Car Blocking My Driveway For 3 days: Should I Tow?  (Read 16897 times)

Offline Venilla

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Re: Car Blocking My Driveway For 3 days: Should I Tow?
« Reply #100 on: December 14, 2015, 10:11:18 PM »
Are you a Dayen? How can you say that there are different opinions when you don't know who they are? A Rav who does not know CM WELL can not have a say here. Sorry. Really sorry.
Are you about to decide which dayan can have a say and which one not? Are you about to test them?
I did my research I asked dayanim that their pesukim are accepted by many.

I'll refrain from naming the dayanim and going into an argument of "which one knows better"...

BTW there was an article in Business Weekly ( פרשת וישלח) with that sheilah.
I like vanilla but my name is Venilla.

Offline am7734

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Re: Car Blocking My Driveway For 3 days: Should I Tow?
« Reply #101 on: December 14, 2015, 10:28:21 PM »
He didn't mention that it was a lease.
Four jacks, I think he said.
Gender symbol would indicate "he" is actually a "she"....

@Venilla: REALLY REALLY impressed by your handling of the situation. Shows a lot of well mannered restraint on your part. Kudos to you.

Offline Freddie

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Re: Car Blocking My Driveway For 3 days: Should I Tow?
« Reply #102 on: December 14, 2015, 10:30:16 PM »
Gender symbol would indicate "he" is actually a "she"....


"Programs: Mothering" supports your hypothesis.

Offline ilherman

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Re: Car Blocking My Driveway For 3 days: Should I Tow?
« Reply #103 on: December 14, 2015, 10:55:56 PM »
Are you about to decide which dayan can have a say and which one not? Are you about to test them?
I did my research I asked dayanim that their pesukim are accepted by many.

I'll refrain from naming the dayanim and going into an argument of "which one knows better"...

BTW there was an article in Business Weekly ( פרשת וישלח) with that sheilah.
I totally am not. Though I said and I will say again, bring me a NAME. Otherwise, since I verified with more than 1 CM Rav that it's Muter, there is no reason I should agree with what you are saying. And BTW I discussed it again today with a different CM Rav and I proposed the concerns what two of your Poiskim raised, and all he said was that it would be a Shaileh of Lushen Hurah if I tell him who the rabbi is who said

 
@ iherman, it's not as simple as you make it sound.

I asked a few C"M Dayanim,
3rd said that the halacha משבר ויוצא is only if there's no other way to remove it without major tircha -what's called major/minor tircha is for a dayan to be considered- including to find out who's car it is and give him notice.

Because it simply goes against a Toisfes in Bava Kamma 28a (it is the second Toisfes on the Daf) He was Dan Lekaf Zachus that the guy probably meant the Halachah that if lets say your driveway is big enough that you could pull out without being Mazik the other guys car then you don't have the right to be Mazik the car. But you guys are all welcome to look up the Toisfes I mentioned above which stats that you don't have to do any Terchah. It is very clear.
You can say what you think when you think what you say.

Offline FlyFirst

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Re: Car Blocking My Driveway For 3 days: Should I Tow?
« Reply #104 on: December 14, 2015, 11:13:31 PM »
I totally am not. Though I said and I will say again, bring me a NAME. Otherwise, since I verified with more than 1 CM Rav that it's Muter, there is no reason I should agree with what you are saying. And BTW I discussed it again today with a different CM Rav and I proposed the concerns what two of your Poiskim raised, and all he said was that it would be a Shaileh of Lushen Hurah if I tell him who the rabbi is who said

"Lashen Horah" if one דיין paskened diffenrtly ???  ???

Offline ilherman

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Re: Car Blocking My Driveway For 3 days: Should I Tow?
« Reply #105 on: December 14, 2015, 11:23:49 PM »
Huh? It's not that he Paskened differently. Its that he completely missed a Toisfes. In any case that part was more sarcastic...
You can say what you think when you think what you say.

Offline Venilla

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Re: Car Blocking My Driveway For 3 days: Should I Tow?
« Reply #106 on: December 14, 2015, 11:33:35 PM »
Huh? It's not that he Paskened differently. Its that he completely missed a Toisfes. In any case that part was more sarcastic...
Rabbi Herman, I'm not gonna be running back to my Dayan and ask about this Toisfes, and I have never learned Baba Kama but just a question, do we always pasken as Toisfes?
I like vanilla but my name is Venilla.

Offline ilherman

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Re: Car Blocking My Driveway For 3 days: Should I Tow?
« Reply #107 on: December 14, 2015, 11:42:34 PM »
Well, you think I didn't ask him that? No one is Choilek on Toisfes in this case. Right when I told him your argument about Tircheh, he pullled out the Gemareh and showed me the Toisfes.
You can say what you think when you think what you say.

Offline MosheD

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Re: Car Blocking My Driveway For 3 days: Should I Tow?
« Reply #108 on: December 15, 2015, 12:05:48 AM »

Offline Venilla

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Re: Car Blocking My Driveway For 3 days: Should I Tow?
« Reply #109 on: December 15, 2015, 01:24:51 PM »
Because it simply goes against a Toisfes in Bava Kamma 28a (it is the second Toisfes on the Daf) He was Dan Lekaf Zachus that the guy probably meant the Halachah that if lets say your driveway is big enough that you could pull out without being Mazik the other guys car then you don't have the right to be Mazik the car. But you guys are all welcome to look up the Toisfes I mentioned above which stats that you don't have to do any Terchah. It is very clear.

I can't refrain...
Quote
ובנוגע למה ששאלתה בפירוש התו׳ כ״ח, ברור לי שהרב לא חסר זה מחכמתו ואנסה להסביר את זה כמיטב יכולתי.

זהו ל׳ הת׳. אע״ג דלעיל אמרינן שהיה לו לשומטו היינו משום דליכא טירחה בשמיטה יותר מבדחיפה אבל הכא לא אטרחוהו לסדרן זה על זה עכ״ל.

עי׳ בחזן איש בבא קמא סימן ד׳ בא״ד שמפרשה וזל׳, כתבו תו׳ כ״ח א׳ דהא דמיייבינן לי׳ לשמטו ובממלא חצירו שלא ברשות לא מחייבינן לי׳ לסדר החביות זו על זו, משום דהוה טורח מרובה, ונראה דכונתם דטורך מועט מחייבינן לי׳ אע״ג דחברו עשה שלא ברשות עכ״ל.

(וע״ע בא״ד שמחלק בין שור שעלה ע״ג חברו לממלא חצר חברו, דדוקה בממלא לא מייבינן לי׳ בטירחה מרובה דמשנה ממנהגו של עולם ולא שבקת חיי)

וע״ע מה שמביא דב׳ הרמ״א סי׳ שפ״ג סע׳ ב׳ שמחייב ראובן שלקח כלי של שמעון וסמך בו חביתו כו׳ ובא שמעון ונטל כלי שלו ונשבר כו׳ של שמעון וז״ל, נראה דהכא טעמא משום שהוא טורח מיעוט וכו׳

קשה לי להאמין שיש מו״צ שיתן היתר כללי להזיק נכסי ישראל אם לא שיברר כל הפרטים והמציאות אבל הכל באפשרי.


כל טוב.

המצפה לישועת ישראל,


Now,
Is there another way to learn that Toisfes? Maybe.
Are there other אחרונים that learn different? Maybe.
Did your Dayan say it's Mutar? You say so.
Is it common that Dayanim have different opinions? Definitely.

But to be so sure that the Dayan I asked is wrong, to assume a reputable Dayan has missed a Toisfes that's clear and saying that giving his name will be Lashan Hora? I find that absurd ::)     
« Last Edit: December 15, 2015, 01:28:33 PM by Venilla »
I like vanilla but my name is Venilla.

Offline FlyFirst

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Re: Car Blocking My Driveway For 3 days: Should I Tow?
« Reply #110 on: December 15, 2015, 01:59:24 PM »
I can't refrain...
Now,
Is there another way to learn that Toisfes? Maybe.
Are there other אחרונים that learn different? Maybe.
Did your Dayan say it's Mutar? You say so.
Is it common that Dayanim have different opinions? Definitely.

But to be so sure that the Dayan I asked is wrong, to assume a reputable Dayan has missed a Toisfes that's clear and saying that giving his name will be Lashan Hora? I find that absurd ::)   

Your profile now definitly has to be changed  :P

Offline Venilla

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Re: Car Blocking My Driveway For 3 days: Should I Tow?
« Reply #111 on: December 15, 2015, 02:08:24 PM »
Your profile now definitly has to be changed  :P
ALOL! To be honest, it wasn't me writing that response, I find it funny but my entire family was engaged in this argument... I know it's against the rules but I couldn't hold him back... He is on DDF we were debating if he should reply from his profile...
I like vanilla but my name is Venilla.

Online talmid chuchem

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Re: Car Blocking My Driveway For 3 days: Should I Tow?
« Reply #112 on: December 15, 2015, 03:17:00 PM »
Before addressing the arguments you raised, can you share who the CM poiskim you spoke are? I posted a name upthread of one of the most prominent CM Dayunim who I took my Pesak from.
Rabbe wind is a Dayen in israel that is one of the best dayunim on Ribis, so I doubt that you asked him personally.  (because he knows ribis very well doesn't mean that he knows other CM parts better then any other dayen)

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Re: Car Blocking My Driveway For 3 days: Should I Tow?
« Reply #113 on: December 15, 2015, 03:18:18 PM »
I totally am not. Though I said and I will say again, bring me a NAME. Otherwise, since I verified with more than 1 CM Rav that it's Muter, there is no reason I should agree with what you are saying. And BTW I discussed it again today with a different CM Rav and I proposed the concerns what two of your Poiskim raised, and all he said was that it would be a Shaileh of Lushen Hurah if I tell him who the rabbi is who said

 
Because it simply goes against a Toisfes in Bava Kamma 28a (it is the second Toisfes on the Daf) He was Dan Lekaf Zachus that the guy probably meant the Halachah that if lets say your driveway is big enough that you could pull out without being Mazik the other guys car then you don't have the right to be Mazik the car. But you guys are all welcome to look up the Toisfes I mentioned above which stats that you don't have to do any Terchah. It is very clear.
Reminds me of Kittah Daled (4th grade) where we used to pasken from the mishnayes

Offline Moshe123

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Re: Car Blocking My Driveway For 3 days: Should I Tow?
« Reply #114 on: December 15, 2015, 03:26:52 PM »
Rabbe wind is a Dayen in israel that is one of the best dayunim on Ribis, so I doubt that you asked him personally.  (because he knows ribis very well doesn't mean that he knows other CM parts better then any other dayen)

There is a Belzer dayen in Lakewood who has that name...

Offline gingyguy

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Re: Car Blocking My Driveway For 3 days: Should I Tow?
« Reply #115 on: December 15, 2015, 03:36:54 PM »
Are you a Dayen? How can you say that there are different opinions when you don't know who they are? A Rav who does not know CM WELL can not have a say here. Sorry. Really sorry.
are YOU a dayan? i have never received any psak in any chelek shulchan aruch where there wasnt a different opinon . thars the whole idea of talkng to your posek....
May you slide down the banister of happiness & get many splinters of success up your career.

Offline koplonko

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Re: Car Blocking My Driveway For 3 days: Should I Tow?
« Reply #116 on: December 15, 2015, 11:42:47 PM »
Reminds me of Kittah Daled (4th grade) where we fought like little kids
FTFY

Offline koplonko

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Re: Car Blocking My Driveway For 3 days: Should I Tow?
« Reply #117 on: December 15, 2015, 11:45:22 PM »
On a regular beis din of 3 dayanim, it happens that each dayan has a different opinion and we follow the majority. Is one of the dayanim wrong??

Offline 12HRS

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Re: Car Blocking My Driveway For 3 days: Should I Tow?
« Reply #118 on: December 16, 2015, 12:10:19 AM »
On a regular beis din of 3 dayanim, it happens that each dayan has a different opinion and we follow the majority. Is one of the dayanim wrong??

only if he doesn't know every tosafos in shas

Offline sguitarist18

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Re: Car Blocking My Driveway For 3 days: Should I Tow?
« Reply #119 on: December 16, 2015, 12:14:57 AM »
Just reading this thread...was very impressed with how Venilla handled the situation.

But makes me wonder regarding the old man - if that's how he parks, it's kind of scary to think that he's still driving.