Author Topic: The Future of Lakewood  (Read 211444 times)

Offline yesitsme

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #1840 on: May 23, 2022, 08:31:24 PM »
Whatís your question?
Why would someone want to go to an event advertised as a night of appreciation for Yungerleit?
Iím not sure why there needs to be an incentive
Attractive would be the word I should've used
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Offline aygart

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #1841 on: May 23, 2022, 08:31:35 PM »




I donít think schools in Lakewood have a hard time finding quality Rebbeim at all.

-1

There are definitely less people pursuing chinuch than previously, according to those in the field. This year only 50 people enrolled in Torah Umesoruah's Aish Dos rebbi training in Lakewood, down from 80-100 there usually was. (Last year or two was already declining.)

There may be no shortage of potential rebbeim, but there is a shortage of quality rebbeim. (Heard from a prominent rosh yeshiva involved in chinuch overall.)
+1
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline S209

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #1842 on: May 23, 2022, 08:38:59 PM »
There are definitely less people pursuing chinuch than previously, according to those in the field. This year only 50 people enrolled in Torah Umesoruah's Aish Dos rebbi training in Lakewood, down from 80-100 there usually was. (Last year or two was already declining.)

There may be no shortage of potential rebbeim, but there is a shortage of quality rebbeim. (Heard from a prominent rosh yeshiva involved in chinuch overall.)
-1
+1
From speaking to (what in my limited experience I consider to be) quality candidates it appears itís very hard for them to land a good job in Lakewood and many of them settle for other grades or caliber schools than they prefer and feel they should be getting because of the massive pool of candidates and limited amount of openings. Only a few classes open each year in town, and even fewer Rebbeim retire.

Itís possible Aish Dosí enrollment lowered because people donít want to join a crowded field where they arenít guaranteed a job. Then again, itís possible my anecdotal information is wrong.

This debate sort of hinges on the definition of ďqualityĒ and how much a salary increase or push to leave Kollel for lack of funds would affect that pool.
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Offline aygart

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #1843 on: May 23, 2022, 08:42:38 PM »
From speaking to (what in my limited experience I consider to be) quality candidates it appears itís very hard for them to land a good job in Lakewood and many of them settle for other grades or caliber schools than they prefer and feel they should be getting because of the massive pool of candidates and limited amount of openings. Only a few classes open each year in town, and even fewer Rebbeim retire.

Itís possible Aish Dosí enrollment lowered because people donít want to join a crowded field where they arenít guaranteed a job. Then again, itís possible my anecdotal information is wrong.

This debate sort of hinges on the definition of ďqualityĒ and how much a salary increase or push to leave Kollel for lack of funds would affect that pool.
! Maybe some grades have more quality candidates available than others but I have heard from admins that they have been having more difficulty than in the past.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline S209

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #1844 on: May 23, 2022, 08:44:10 PM »
! Maybe some grades have more quality candidates available than others but I have heard from admins that they have been having more difficulty than in the past.
They have a hard time finding candidates, or they feel the quality of the candidates available has decreased?
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Offline yesitsme

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #1845 on: May 23, 2022, 08:51:44 PM »
I actually think the whole raise in stipend is good, but has some unforseen negative consequences,  especially since it was so abrupt.

1) As hard as it was to find quality rabbeim, both in town and out, it will harder, since a major impetus for leaving kollel is money.

2) Out of town kollelim will have a harder time recruiting since their major draw is higher pay. Many small communities have very little jewishness outside of their small community kollel

3) Yungeleit will spend more time in kollel, since they are getting paid more. However when it comes time to leave, they'll be in a tougher spot since the starting salary will be a smaller raise,  and their expenses will be higher, becauset they stayed in kollel longer. (I agree that this is a weaker point and doesn't inherently make the initiative a bad one).

If anyone is going to spearhead a raise in pay for BMG they must be ready to address rabbiem salaries and out of of town kollel stipends in a similar fashion, IMHO.
You missed a big one
It will be more difficult to find a עני מהודר

Offline YitzyS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #1846 on: May 23, 2022, 08:58:22 PM »
From speaking to (what in my limited experience I consider to be) quality candidates it appears itís very hard for them to land a good job in Lakewood and many of them settle for other grades or caliber schools than they prefer and feel they should be getting because of the massive pool of candidates and limited amount of openings. Only a few classes open each year in town, and even fewer Rebbeim retire.

Itís possible Aish Dosí enrollment lowered because people donít want to join a crowded field where they arenít guaranteed a job. Then again, itís possible my anecdotal information is wrong.

This debate sort of hinges on the definition of ďqualityĒ and how much a salary increase or push to leave Kollel for lack of funds would affect that pool.
There are a few points to keep in mind:

1) For every job that opens in a mainstream, sought-after cheder, there are 5 in less exciting situations. All places deserve quality rebbeim, and just because a quality rebbi didn't get a job offer in a great place, doesn't mean that there are too many candidates.

2) Just because someone appears to be a quality candidate, it doesn't mean they have all the qualities needed to be a superstar. In general, a small percentage of each "class" of new rebbeim will become superstars, many will be great rebbeim, and many will be mediocre rebbeim. You may be right that some are hesitant to enter "an overcrowded field", but the bottom line is that there will be less "great" and "superstar" rebbeim because less people are motivated to enter the field.

I know a number of people who are trying to enter the chinuch field, and many of them lack some of the natural talents to be a great rebbi. They may become seasoned over time, but mosdos always look for top candidates, because it's a multi-decade position that will impact hundreds or thousands of children. So yes, many candidates have a hard time landing a job, but at the same time, there is a shortage of "quality" rebbeim.

3) The increased kollel check could be a factor, even if it's not the only factor. I've heard that Rav Elya Brudny said that the stimulus checks were a factor for some people not feeling the push to leave yeshiva and enter chinuch.

5) Did you notice that there was no number 4? If you didn't, how will you be sure that no talmidim fall through the cracks?

6) Number six was something that was better left unsaid, so I left it that way.

Online yuneeq

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #1847 on: May 23, 2022, 09:00:57 PM »
There are a few points to keep in mind:

1) For every job that opens in a mainstream, sought-after cheder, there are 5 in less exciting situations. All places deserve quality rebbeim, and just because a quality rebbi didn't get a job offer in a great place, doesn't mean that there are too many candidates.

2) Just because someone appears to be a quality candidate, it doesn't mean they have all the qualities needed to be a superstar. In general, a small percentage of each "class" of new rebbeim will become superstars, many will be great rebbeim, and many will be mediocre rebbeim. You may be right that some are hesitant to enter "an overcrowded field", but the bottom line is that there will be less "great" and "superstar" rebbeim because less people are motivated to enter the field.

I know a number of people who are trying to enter the chinuch field, and many of them lack some of the natural talents to be a great rebbi. They may become seasoned over time, but mosdos always look for top candidates, because it's a multi-decade position that will impact hundreds or thousands of children. So yes, many candidates have a hard time landing a job, but at the same time, there is a shortage of "quality" rebbeim.

3) The increased kollel check could be a factor, even if it's not the only factor. I've heard that Rav Elya Brudny said that the stimulus checks were a factor for some people not feeling the push to leave yeshiva and enter chinuch.

5) Did you notice that there was no number 4? If you didn't, how will you be sure that no talmidim fall through the cracks?

6) Number six was something that was better left unsaid, so I left it that way.

4 points turned into 6. Inflation is hitting us everywhere.
"If you fall, I will be there." -Floor

Offline Sam 77

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #1848 on: May 23, 2022, 09:01:34 PM »
There are a few points to keep in mind:

1) For every job that opens in a mainstream, sought-after cheder, there are 5 in less exciting situations. All places deserve quality rebbeim, and just because a quality rebbi didn't get a job offer in a great place, doesn't mean that there are too many candidates.

2) Just because someone appears to be a quality candidate, it doesn't mean they have all the qualities needed to be a superstar. In general, a small percentage of each "class" of new rebbeim will become superstars, many will be great rebbeim, and many will be mediocre rebbeim. You may be right that some are hesitant to enter "an overcrowded field", but the bottom line is that there will be less "great" and "superstar" rebbeim because less people are motivated to enter the field.

I know a number of people who are trying to enter the chinuch field, and many of them lack some of the natural talents to be a great rebbi. They may become seasoned over time, but mosdos always look for top candidates, because it's a multi-decade position that will impact hundreds or thousands of children. So yes, many candidates have a hard time landing a job, but at the same time, there is a shortage of "quality" rebbeim.

3) The increased kollel check could be a factor, even if it's not the only factor. I've heard that Rav Elya Brudny said that the stimulus checks were a factor for some people not feeling the push to leave yeshiva and enter chinuch.

5) Did you notice that there was no number 4? If you didn't, how will you be sure that no talmidim fall through the cracks?

6) Number six was something that was better left unsaid, so I left it that way.
Wow! He's working hard for his likes!

Offline S209

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #1849 on: May 23, 2022, 09:06:59 PM »
3) The increased kollel check could be a factor, even if it's not the only factor. I've heard that Rav Elya Brudny said that the stimulus checks were a factor for some people not feeling the push to leave yeshiva and enter chinuch.
Do you believe itís valid to consider not increasing a yungermanís paycheck because it might make him more comfortable staying in learning for longer and not entering Chinuch just yet?
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Offline YitzyS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #1850 on: May 23, 2022, 09:16:24 PM »
Do you believe itís valid to consider not increasing a yungermanís paycheck because it might make him more comfortable staying in learning for longer and not entering Chinuch just yet?
No. I was not weighing in on that discussion. I was just responding to your assertion that "I donít think schools in Lakewood have a hard time finding quality Rebbeim at all."

I think it's a great thing that Kollel checks are being raised, and the "ramifications" could, and should, be addressed and rectified. One solution to the chinuch disincentive problem, which is it's own parsha and is long overdue as an independent issue, is that rebbeim salaries should be doubled, at least.

The person who takes care of your health, your legal work, and your accounting can make 150k-250k a year. Shouldn't the person who molds your child's chinuch make at least that amount? And don't you think it's worth incentivizing that field in order to draw the best and greatest talents to the chinuch world?

Offline jye

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #1851 on: May 23, 2022, 09:42:33 PM »
From speaking to (what in my limited experience I consider to be) quality candidates it appears itís very hard for them to land a good job in Lakewood and many of them settle for other grades or caliber schools than they prefer and feel they should be getting because of the massive pool of candidates and limited amount of openings. Only a few classes open each year in town, and even fewer Rebbeim retire.

Itís possible Aish Dosí enrollment lowered because people donít want to join a crowded field where they arenít guaranteed a job. Then again, itís possible my anecdotal information is wrong.

This debate sort of hinges on the definition of ďqualityĒ and how much a salary increase or push to leave Kollel for lack of funds would affect that pool.
ďNobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded.Ē
Yogi Berra

Offline jye

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #1852 on: May 23, 2022, 09:46:44 PM »
Yep. Back in the day it used to cover a good chunk of the months rent for a young kollel couple for a much smaller base of yungerleit. The number of yungerleit exploded and it was all they could do to keep up with the original amount of the kollel check. Decades later that amount would not even cover a weeks rent. From what I heard Lazer sheiner  was shocked too and reacted in disbelief when he heard the amount of the kollel check. He decided to make it his mission and one year later here we are.
A big selling point of the campaign is transparency; the funds go straight to the yungerleit. Some guys may not have been comfortable donating  in the past knowing that their money might go toward overhead, building costs, or any other BMG budget item. This is a completely separate fund and that is more appealing for some.

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #1853 on: May 23, 2022, 10:02:14 PM »
A big selling point of the campaign is transparency; the funds go straight to the yungerleit. Some guys may not have been comfortable donating  in the past knowing that their money might go toward overhead, building costs, or any other BMG budget item. This is a completely separate fund and that is more appealing for some.
The kollel check budget was always like this. (Ostensibly.)

Offline yesitsme

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #1854 on: May 23, 2022, 10:02:30 PM »
- Registration and ticket sign up for BMG youngeleit and bochurim for Adirei Hatorah event will begin tomorrow via the kiosks at the yeshiva. The night of the event super will not be served in yeshiva but in the arena in Trenton,NJ
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Offline yesitsme

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #1855 on: May 23, 2022, 10:05:21 PM »
- Lakewood awards $2.5 million to a contractor for the vine street expansion project opening it up from Cedarbridge to Pine. Construction will begin after state approval.
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Offline yr

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #1856 on: May 23, 2022, 10:40:40 PM »
Do you believe itís valid to consider not increasing a yungermanís paycheck because it might make him more comfortable staying in learning for longer and not entering Chinuch just yet?

If money is infinite, then of course not. But since money is indeed finite, perhaps the vast sums of money can be allocated , in part, to our chinuch system.

Offline yesitsme

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #1857 on: May 23, 2022, 10:43:11 PM »
If money is infinite, then of course not. But since money is indeed finite, perhaps the vast sums of money can be allocated , in part, to our chinuch system.
What does one have with the next

Never stop someone else's project because you believe something else is more important, you are more than welcome to push what you believe in
It's not an either or situation

Offline S209

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #1858 on: May 23, 2022, 11:40:40 PM »
If money is infinite, then of course not. But since money is indeed finite, perhaps the vast sums of money can be allocated , in part, to our chinuch system.
Itís great to donate to and fundraise for the Chinuch system. But what in the world does that have to do with this amazing and beautiful project? Ma inyan shemittah etzel har Sinai?

There's lots of financial waste in the world. This isnít that.
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Offline S209

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #1859 on: May 27, 2022, 01:00:21 AM »


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