Author Topic: The Future of Lakewood  (Read 506280 times)

Offline YitzyS

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Offline Sam 77

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2041 on: July 13, 2022, 03:01:17 PM »

Offline yuneeq

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2042 on: July 13, 2022, 04:16:30 PM »
There is no way that would happen while there is a conviction on the books. Even now it is not clear that it reaches that level.

There is no conviction, but even when there was, there was clear evidence of misconduct that no one is arguing against. I'm not saying Murphy has to fire the AG, but threatening to fire can do the trick as well. At the end of the day, the AG is an appointed position, and the gov is tasked with hiring someone to carry out their agenda. The governor's agenda should not have any room for prosecutorial misconduct.
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Offline ari3

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2043 on: July 13, 2022, 04:30:57 PM »
There is no conviction, but even when there was, there was clear evidence of misconduct that no one is arguing against. I'm not saying Murphy has to fire the AG, but threatening to fire can do the trick as well. At the end of the day, the AG is an appointed position, and the gov is tasked with hiring someone to carry out their agenda. The governor's agenda should not have any room for prosecutorial misconduct.
What clear evidence of misconduct?

Additionally the current AG just recently took his post (and hasn't been confirmed yet). Who do you want to fire?

Offline YitzyS

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Offline aygart

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2045 on: July 13, 2022, 05:10:25 PM »
There is no conviction
As of about 3 business hours prior to your post ::)
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline yuneeq

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2046 on: July 13, 2022, 05:39:15 PM »
What clear evidence of misconduct?

Do you see anyone disputing that the AG intentionally withheld evidence?
Despite my ignorance of the law, it reeks of misconduct. For someone tasked with putting people behind bars, they are not fit for the position.

Quote
Additionally the current AG just recently took his post (and hasn't been confirmed yet). Who do you want to fire?

If there's no one that receives repercussions for misconduct then the case should be tossed out. The state and its representatives are in the business of convicting criminals, not the innocent. If the state breaks the law to convict, the related charges should be dismissed.

As of about 3 business hours prior to your post ::)

Understood, and it's not too late for the gov to pretend that he's a friend of the Jews. Regardless, my stance is having a conviction should not prevent weeding out misconduct, if anything misconduct should prompt the dismissal of any related convictions.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2022, 07:12:00 PM by yuneeq »
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Offline YitzyS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2047 on: July 13, 2022, 05:55:55 PM »
I'm furious that they keep appealing.

Is it really their job to be more zealous than the judges? Two judges said that he deserves less, but they need to appeal for stricter sentences/full jail time?

Are they losing sight of what their role is in our society?

Offline JMHO

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2048 on: July 13, 2022, 06:00:17 PM »
I'm furious that they keep appealing.

Is it really their job to be more zealous than the judges? Two judges said that he deserves less, but they need to appeal for stricter sentences/full jail time?

Are they losing sight of what their role is in our society?

Why do you think they are appealing?

Offline gogreen

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Offline YitzyS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2050 on: July 13, 2022, 06:05:37 PM »
Why do you think they are appealing?
Don't know if they are, but at least they are claiming they plan to. It could just be something they are saying now to save face, and they don't really plan to once the focus wears off.

None of the Jewish media outlets picked this up yet, and I hope they don't. It will be much easier for them to just drop it if there were no headlines screaming that they intend to appeal.

Yemach Shemam!!

And they wonder why everyone hates them?!

"The state Attorney General's Office, which prosecuted the case, is reviewing Paone's decision and plans to appeal it, an office spokesman said."

Offline aygart

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2051 on: July 13, 2022, 06:15:30 PM »
Do you see anyone disputing that the AG intentionally withheld evidence?
Despite my ignorance of the law, it reeks of misconduct. For someone tasked with putting people behind bars, they are not fit for the position.

If there's no one that receives repercussions for misconduct then the case should be tossed out. The state and its representatives are in the business of convicting criminals, not the innocent. If the state breaks the law to convict, the related charges should be dismissed.

Understood, and it's not too late for the gov to pretend that he's a friend of the Jews. Regardless, my stance is having a conviction is not grounds to weed out misconduct, if anything misconduct should prompt the dismissal of any related convictions.
Of course but that stuff takes a long time. From an outsider view the conviction shows that there was no misconduct until the judge says otherwise. To some extent that happened with the mistrial ruling but not enough for a firing.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline YitzyS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2052 on: July 13, 2022, 06:24:54 PM »
There was a lot of misconduct perpetrated by prosecutors during the case. The problem is, most of it was already presented to the appeals court and they anyways ruled that Rabbi Eisemann should be resentenced for prison time.

IMO, the real baalei avla in this case was the two-judge appeals panel. They clearly misunderstood the case (based on the fictitious sequence of events they recounted in their decision brief), and although I have no proof to this, I strongly suspect that something nefarious was going on behind the scenes there.

Whatever the case, here is an outline of the 8 grounds for appeal mentioned in the defense's appeal brief filed after the trial in 2019. Many of them were barely touched in the decision brief, so we don't really know how the appeals court justified them all. https://www.rayze.it/images/db/EisemannAppealBrief.pdf

Keep in mind that this appeal brief was before they learned that key evidence was withheld.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2053 on: July 13, 2022, 07:46:33 PM »
Of course but that stuff takes a long time. From an outsider view the conviction shows that there was no misconduct until the judge says otherwise. To some extent that happened with the mistrial ruling but not enough for a firing.

That's if you're going the legal route. But as a boss I hold my employees accountable for doing things wrong, I don't need to wait for a court case to take action. Murphy is not just simply ignoring the misconduct, his team is executing exactly how he desires.

Time to stop beating around the bush. This is a witch hunt.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2022, 08:00:16 PM by yuneeq »
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Offline ari3

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2054 on: July 13, 2022, 08:08:51 PM »
Do you see anyone disputing that the AG intentionally withheld evidence?
Despite my ignorance of the law, it reeks of misconduct. For someone tasked with putting people behind bars, they are not fit for the position.

If there's no one that receives repercussions for misconduct then the case should be tossed out. The state and its representatives are in the business of convicting criminals, not the innocent. If the state breaks the law to convict, the related charges should be dismissed.

https://www.app.com/story/news/local/courts/2022/07/12/lakewood-nj-schi-founder-new-trial/65371876007/

A quote from the article

Paone wrote that the state was aware Janowski made the ledger entry in question, but didn't call her to testify at the first trial and didn't turn over her identity to the defense. Despite that, Paone said he found no "willful misconduct" by the state to withhold exculpatory evidence from the defense.

If Paone judge who threw out the conviction doesn't think there was willful misconduct then good luck convincing Murphy or anyone else


Offline ari3

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2055 on: July 13, 2022, 08:20:43 PM »
I'm furious that they keep appealing.

Is it really their job to be more zealous than the judges? Two judges said that he deserves less, but they need to appeal for stricter sentences/full jail time?

Are they losing sight of what their role is in our society?
You are assuming that they at some point had sight of what their role in society is (or that your perception of their role is the same as their perception).

I don't think too many people think this investigation started out from a place that should be their role in society and it isn't now.

Unfortunately the Justice system in this country is terribly corrupt and abused by those in power on a regular basis. The same crimes are ok for most people unless you are a chosen target then they will go after you till they find something whether it is true or not. That is what happened with R' Eiseman from the start and that is what goes on in most high profile cases. 

Offline aygart

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2056 on: July 13, 2022, 08:41:10 PM »
That's if you're going the legal route. But as a boss I hold my employees accountable for doing things wrong, I don't need to wait for a court case to take action. Murphy is not just simply ignoring the misconduct, his team is executing exactly how he desires.

Time to stop beating around the bush. This is a witch hunt.
Of course it is a witch hunt. That has nothing to do with how terribly unrealistic your expectations are
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline yesitsme

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2057 on: July 13, 2022, 09:01:25 PM »
Of course it is a witch hunt. That has nothing to do with how terribly unrealistic your expectations are
As noted in Dr Robert's podcast
["-"]

Offline Baruch

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2058 on: July 13, 2022, 10:24:28 PM »
As noted in Dr Robert's podcast
link?

Offline YitzyS

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