Author Topic: The Future of Lakewood  (Read 408142 times)

Offline chevron

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3140 on: June 26, 2023, 02:55:59 AM »
I once asked a friend regarding reb Shlomo, he told me, the greater the yetzer tov, great is the yetzer hara.

But also, Chaim grade talks a lot about this type of person, one who can learn shaa but is empty

Offline Lurker

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3141 on: June 26, 2023, 03:18:34 AM »
I almost didn't post this, and maybe I shouldn't have, because I'm not better than anyone here....

We talk about the ponzi schemes and RE scams, because these people must be stopped. After all, Yiddishe gelt! We talk about the lesbian wedding, because these people must be stopped. After all, they're trying to corrupt our children! But this? We talk about this, because at the root of it all, we just like to gossip. After all, how can we teach our kids about loshon hora if we don't show them what it is?
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Offline yomo

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3142 on: June 26, 2023, 03:41:16 AM »
I almost didn't post this, and maybe I shouldn't have, because I'm not better than anyone here....

We talk about the ponzi schemes and RE scams, because these people must be stopped. After all, Yiddishe gelt! We talk about the lesbian wedding, because these people must be stopped. After all, they're trying to corrupt our children! But this? We talk about this, because at the root of it all, we just like to gossip. After all, how can we teach our kids about loshon hora if we don't show them what it is?

100% true. We can go a step further to say that possibly the underlying deeper root of gossip like this is not feeling great about ourselves and trying to artificially compensate for low self esteem

Offline cmey

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3143 on: June 26, 2023, 06:04:08 AM »
I almost didn't post this, and maybe I shouldn't have, because I'm not better than anyone here....

We talk about the ponzi schemes and RE scams, because these people must be stopped. After all, Yiddishe gelt! We talk about the lesbian wedding, because these people must be stopped. After all, they're trying to corrupt our children! But this? We talk about this, because at the root of it all, we just like to gossip. After all, how can we teach our kids about loshon hora if we don't show them what it is?

Talking in the theoretical as opposed to the case at hand, if someone passing himself off as a talmid chacham and צדיק would be living a double life, passing himself off for years to non Jews as a Roman Catholic, being mizaneh with hundreds of non Jews בשאט נפש, mechalel shabbos, treif restaurants etc. and if theoretically at some point it became well known, at some point wouldnít it rise beyond the level of בעל עבירה and be מן החנפים and אינו עושה מעשה עמך so that it would be מותר to speak about and denigrate that person even if we were to assume that there is no תועלת (other than מפרסמין החנפין)? I know the ח״ח כלל ד׳ in באר מים חיים ל״ב and also in כלל ז וי׳ touches on this. Perhaps someone well versed in these halachos can comment. Again talking in the theoretical.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2023, 06:16:34 AM by cmey »

Offline avromie7

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3144 on: June 26, 2023, 07:07:57 AM »
Was it a good Sefer?
It was written with an agenda.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline joe1234

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3145 on: June 26, 2023, 08:52:39 AM »
Talking in the theoretical as opposed to the case at hand, if someone passing himself off as a talmid chacham and צדיק would be living a double life, passing himself off for years to non Jews as a Roman Catholic, being mizaneh with hundreds of non Jews בשאט נפש, mechalel shabbos, treif restaurants etc. and if theoretically at some point it became well known, at some point wouldnít it rise beyond the level of בעל עבירה and be מן החנפים and אינו עושה מעשה עמך so that it would be מותר to speak about and denigrate that person even if we were to assume that there is no תועלת (other than מפרסמין החנפין)? I know the ח״ח כלל ד׳ in באר מים חיים ל״ב and also in כלל ז וי׳ touches on this. Perhaps someone well versed in these halachos can comment. Again talking in the theoretical.
All his Aveiros were for taavah, so he is not a regular mumarÖ just a mumar leteiavonÖ and then we need to take into account that at this point he may really just want to do teshuvah and forget his past and wishes everyone else forget as wellÖ. This embarrassment is definitely some sort of kapparah. I donít know who we are talking aboutÖ Iím just saying this as if he was my child.

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3146 on: June 26, 2023, 09:20:37 AM »
100% true. We can go a step further to say that possibly the underlying deeper root of gossip like this is not feeling great about ourselves and trying to artificially compensate for low self esteem
I don't think that's the reason.
I don't think a reason is needed. It's just built into the psyche of a normal person.
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Offline liosac

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3147 on: June 26, 2023, 09:37:18 AM »
I almost didn't post this, and maybe I shouldn't have, because I'm not better than anyone here....

We talk about the ponzi schemes and RE scams, because these people must be stopped. After all, Yiddishe gelt! We talk about the lesbian wedding, because these people must be stopped. After all, they're trying to corrupt our children! But this? We talk about this, because at the root of it all, we just like to gossip. After all, how can we teach our kids about loshon hora if we don't show them what it is?
I doubt itís considered לתועלת so if heís really not considered to be in the category that is מותר לספר עליו Iím all for mods deleting.

Offline S209

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3148 on: June 26, 2023, 09:40:18 AM »
I doubt itís considered לתועלת so if heís really not considered to be in the category that is מותר לספר עליו Iím all for mods deleting.
I donít think anyone posted the name.
Quote from: YitzyS
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Offline joe1234

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3149 on: June 26, 2023, 09:44:06 AM »
I donít think anyone posted the name.
Not sure that matters here especially when some people already know his name.

Offline imayid2

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3150 on: June 26, 2023, 09:45:26 AM »
Iím not sure why it wouldnít be לתועלת for me to know about a pervert in my community, who wrote seforim that could be on the shelf in shul. Not understanding this argument at all. Maybe not to relish the details, but people shouldnít know about it?

Offline avromie7

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3151 on: June 26, 2023, 09:50:34 AM »
Iím not sure why it wouldnít be לתועלת for me to know about a pervert in my community, who wrote seforim that could be on the shelf in shul. Not understanding this argument at all. Maybe not to relish the details, but people shouldnít know about it?
That sefer should never have had any credibility.
It was written with an agenda.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline avromie7

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3152 on: June 26, 2023, 09:53:21 AM »
PSA: If you google his real name, none of the image results are him.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Euclid

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3153 on: June 26, 2023, 09:57:45 AM »
PSA: If you google his real name, none of the image results are him.
That sefer should never have had any credibility.
Your SI bias is showing

Offline JMHO

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3154 on: June 26, 2023, 10:20:08 AM »
It was written with an agenda.
What was the agenda?

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3155 on: June 26, 2023, 10:26:20 AM »
I doubt itís considered לתועלת so if heís really not considered to be in the category that is מותר לספר עליו Iím all for mods deleting.

It's not the mods' job to police our LH or any other standards of religiosity. But if we're worried about people taking the actions of one and possibly getting

all riled up and starts generalizing to other people in Lakewood etc;

we should most definitely be concerned about people judging a community on the actions (or words) of many.

*to be clear, the community is not Lakewood, but DDF.
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Offline Lurker

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3156 on: June 26, 2023, 10:32:52 AM »
Iím not sure why it wouldnít be לתועלת for me to know about a pervert in my community, who wrote seforim that could be on the shelf in shul. Not understanding this argument at all. Maybe not to relish the details, but people shouldnít know about it?

You know what goes on in everyone's bedroom? It's not your job. You have Daas Torah, and it's their job to tell you which sforim are proper or improper to have on your shelf. You knowing the details of an individual's personal struggles and discussing it on a public forum has absolutely no toeles, other than satisfying your own perverse taavos.

*"You" is not personal, but general, and the taava is different for everyone, whether it's living vicariously, feeling superior, being in the know, or whatever your personal excuse is for needing to know and discuss this story.
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Offline avromie7

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3157 on: June 26, 2023, 10:53:26 AM »
What was the agenda?
I'm not going into detail now, but it's on a very narrow topic that his family was involved in at the time.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline chevron

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3158 on: June 26, 2023, 01:47:24 PM »
I'm not into public shaming anyone but this is like the due diligence thread.

The guy wants to do teshuva after scamming hundreds of women ? After breaking his wife's heart, kids? Family? Community ? מחלל שם שמים ברבים what did he think was going to happen? Once or twice I get it but for years? And people knew so they are enablers

Someone like that, learns Torah out of gaavah.  Like my friend Roman who was antagonist couldn't stand frum people "I saw this guy with a kippah on at the strip club"

Everyone's to careful with lashon hara.. no one is held accountable for their deeds

Offline chevron

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3159 on: June 26, 2023, 01:57:03 PM »
I'm not into public shaming anyone but this is like the due diligence thread.

The guy wants to do teshuva after scamming hundreds of women ? After breaking his wife's heart, kids? Family? Community ? מחלל שם שמים ברבים what did he think was going to happen? Once or twice I get it but for years? And people knew so they are enablers

Someone like that, learns Torah out of gaavah.  Like my friend Roman who was antagonist couldn't stand frum people "I saw this guy with a kippah on at the strip club"

Everyone's to careful with lashon hara.. no one is held accountable for their deeds

To clarify, I have no opinion honestly and couldn't care less. I've been to Lakewood once In my 38 year life ;)