Author Topic: The Future of Lakewood  (Read 516977 times)

Offline UKinNYS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4180 on: November 20, 2023, 04:06:11 PM »
Was a general observation, I haven't followed the ins-and-outs of this case so this may be different.
Even if a judge rules that there was an intentional violation?

Offline YitzyS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4181 on: November 20, 2023, 04:11:52 PM »
Is the state preparing for a new trial?
A few months ago, they made it clear that they were already preparing for the trial.

Offline YitzyS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4182 on: November 20, 2023, 04:13:42 PM »
It may be hard to prove a Brady violation - but it was already proven. The judge ruled it was Brady, and the Appellate Court agreed. (And the Supreme Court declined to overturn.)

The hard part was already done. Now it's just up to proving that it was intentional. And based on what I hear, the proof may be pretty strong...

Offline Pony

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4183 on: November 20, 2023, 04:23:18 PM »
It may be hard to prove a Brady violation - but it was already proven. The judge ruled it was Brady, and the Appellate Court agreed. (And the Supreme Court declined to overturn.)

The hard part was already done. Now it's just up to proving that it was intentional. And based on what I hear, the proof may be pretty strong...

Begs the question... why does the state want to proceed with a new trial? Why not cut their losses instead of having this blow up in their faces by the next trial?

Offline YitzyS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4184 on: November 20, 2023, 04:27:14 PM »
Begs the question... why does the state want to proceed with a new trial? Why not cut their losses instead of having this blow up in their faces by the next trial?
I learned a long time ago that there is something unnatural about this case. Al Pi Derech Hateva - it should've tossed out so long ago. It should've never gotten anywhere. But the craziest things keep happening in this case. This case is replete with so much clear Hashgacha - both in ways we call good and in ways we think are not-so-good (though everything is good) - that I stopped asking questions about why things happen in this case.

Offline gogreen

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4185 on: November 20, 2023, 04:31:20 PM »
Begs the question... why does the state want to proceed with a new trial? Why not cut their losses instead of having this blow up in their faces by the next trial?
It's too late for them to cut losses. The motions to prove willfulness are still submissible based on the old trial.

Offline YitzyS

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Offline Dave321

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4187 on: November 21, 2023, 10:18:55 AM »
I learned a long time ago that there is something unnatural about this case. Al Pi Derech Hateva - it should've tossed out so long ago. It should've never gotten anywhere. But the craziest things keep happening in this case. This case is replete with so much clear Hashgacha - both in ways we call good and in ways we think are not-so-good (though everything is good) - that I stopped asking questions about why things happen in this case.
Yep bingo. I dont see how this case is still ongoing. with all the clout with the AG etc. it must be payback for something lakewood did.

Offline Baruch

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4188 on: November 21, 2023, 10:28:44 AM »
It's too late for them to cut losses. The motions to prove willfulness are still submissible based on the old trial.
Would they be able to cut a deal with Eisemann, that they'd drop the charges, but Eisemann has to promise not to come after them with the Brady violations? Or that's not how these things work?

Online Yehuda57

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4189 on: November 21, 2023, 10:56:42 AM »
Would they be able to cut a deal with Eisemann, that they'd drop the charges, but Eisemann has to promise not to come after them with the Brady violations? Or that's not how these things work?

Even if such a thing were possible, and I'm not sure it is, I doubt they would ever even entertain such an idea. Prosecutorial immunity is an exceedingly difficult burden to overcome. Even if you are successful, it takes years and a huge amount of resources. You have to be exceedingly confident you will win to risk taking on such a case. I don't think the prosecution would feel any threat at all, and even if they do lose, they don't lose anything personally, it will just cost the taxpayers.


Offline yuneeq

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4190 on: November 21, 2023, 11:37:06 AM »
Even if such a thing were possible, and I'm not sure it is, I doubt they would ever even entertain such an idea. Prosecutorial immunity is an exceedingly difficult burden to overcome. Even if you are successful, it takes years and a huge amount of resources. You have to be exceedingly confident you will win to risk taking on such a case. I don't think the prosecution would feel any threat at all, and even if they do lose, they don't lose anything personally, it will just cost the taxpayers.

This is why I’ve always felt Murphy should’ve been publicly pressured to stop this witch hunt. It’s his appointees, and he’s the only one that can hold them accountable. The buck stops with him.

I know some claim Murphy wants the AG’s office to maintain its independence, that’s a valid claim - until there are serious allegations and subsequent court rulings of a Brady violation.

What Murphy and his cronies have done to Eisemann is beyond despicable, yet he still has the strong support of the Vaad somehow.
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Offline Pony

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4191 on: November 21, 2023, 12:03:10 PM »

What Murphy and his cronies have done to Eisemann is beyond despicable, yet he still has the strong support of the Vaad somehow.

This mess actually started in 2017 under Christie. The republican everyone voted for against the vaads wishes.

Offline Pony

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4192 on: November 21, 2023, 12:04:20 PM »

Offline Dawie

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4193 on: November 21, 2023, 04:53:38 PM »
Can we nominate Joe Cryan for higher office? This guy has been unreal.
do some research into him before you anoint him as the next savior
He has personal or family experience of prosecutorial misconduct and it is his one mission in gov't, to expose it and bring in accountability
 

Offline YitzyS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4194 on: November 22, 2023, 06:38:06 PM »
Eisemann's lawyers submitted a brief today asking for the dismissal.

https://newjerseyglobe.com/judiciary/claiming-a-second-brady-violation-attorney-seeks-to-dismiss-lakewood-rabbi-indictment/

ETA: Nice piece, with a notable mistake in the second paragraph. It says that judge ruled it was intentional. So far, the judge ruled that there was no proof of intentionality.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2023, 06:53:36 PM by YitzyS »

Offline YitzyS

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Offline yuneeq

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4196 on: November 22, 2023, 11:05:00 PM »
This mess actually started in 2017 under Christie. The republican everyone voted for against the vaads wishes.

You make a good point - but I'm not sure about this. IINM, there was an election in 2017, and since 2018, the attorney general's office has been reporting to Murphy.
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Offline aygart

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Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline YitzyS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4198 on: November 27, 2023, 03:50:40 PM »
Senator Singer: ‘Why there is a vendetta against this good man is mind-boggling’

 https://newjerseyglobe.com/state-government/singer-asks-attorney-general-office-to-review-case-against-lakewood-rabbi/

Offline yelped

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4199 on: November 27, 2023, 04:07:33 PM »
https://newjerseyglobe.com/judiciary/claiming-a-second-brady-violation-attorney-seeks-to-dismiss-lakewood-rabbi-indictment/

"Since his Brady violation, Nicodemo has been moved out of his role as a prosecutor – he is now working as a diversity officer, albeit at a higher salary – and Cohen departed the attorney general’s office last Friday."

Today's America. The biggest bigots and racists become "diversity officers" to persecute ordinary Americans.