The Future of Lakewood

[aygart]

That antivaxxers avoid chemo...

But all you showed was that people who avoid chemo are also anti-vaxxers

[TheAsh]

No, but these schools barely teach English. They teach life skills.

For a total of 3 hours a week.

[imayid2]

That's targeting a different crowd though. There should be plenty of typical yeshivish bochurim from families that want general studies for a regular Lakewood mesivta.

The parents want it but it doesn’t work because in general they have little respect for it

[TheAsh]

But all you showed was that people who avoid chemo are also anti-vaxxers

All I was trying to show was that such people exist in our community.  That's all.

[TheAsh]

The parents want it but it doesn’t work because in general they have little respect for it

Yes. The rebbeim, especially 5-8th grade do not respect it. (Not all, not most. But definitely a significant amount). And it spreads to the kids

[aygart]

All I was trying to show was that such people exist in our community.  That's all.

Of course they do. Why should we be exempt?

[shlomoandtam]

They have been trying for over 20 years.

this year was different they gave fahers, and i think they bought a property.

[aygart]

this year was different they gave fahers, and i think they bought a property.

And they were actually open in Monroe township

[sds1493]

if this is what you write on the מהרש"א, I rather not be educated at all, thanks

Do you practice the remedies brought down in Meseches Gitin? Do you think they are effective (more so than a placebo?).

[imayid2]

Do you practice the remedies brought down in Meseches Gitin? Do you think they are effective (more so than a placebo?).

It would be unfair to say they were nothing more than just placebo.
See ‘Medicine In The Talmud’ which is an excellent work on the subject.

“As medical anthropologists have shown, biomedical perspectives of efficacy are biased against traditional forms of therapy to the extent that they favor the curing of diseases—that is, ridding the body of a pathology or fixing a physiological abnormality—over the healing of illnesses in their psychosocial or cultural dimensions.59 According to this model, Talmudic medicine healed illnesses; it did not cure diseases. This bias notwithstanding, research on Talmudic therapies can benefit from contemporary scientific studies to shed light on the efficacy of ancient therapies. An evaluation of the materia medica in the Bavli using current encyclopedias of herbal medicines can sometimes yield useful information, or at least provide context, about how they may have worked.60 It is not inconceivable that some of the Talmudic materia medica were effective, even if we cannot identify them or prove their effectiveness. Ethnobotanists’ quests for new plant and animal medicines, such as in the Amazon rain forests and elsewhere, show how today’s pharmacopoeia is incomplete and unaware of species of plants with medicinal properties.61 New plant-based medicines are being developed all the time—including for malaria, impotence, and glaucoma, among other afflictions.62 Even common cancer drugs are made of tree bark, such as paclitaxel, “the most widely used breast cancer drug,” which is “isolated from the bark of Taxus brevifolia (Pacific Yew).”63 In addition to new discoveries, many pharmaceuticals used today are derived from natural ingredients that have been known for millennia. Aspirin, for instance, is made of willow bark, which contains the active agent salicin. Its analgesic property is mentioned as far back as the Ebers Papyrus, an Egyp- tian work from the sixteenth century b.c.e.64 Recently, scientists have made successful discoveries—one to treat Staphylococcus aureus, and the other a drug with antitumor activity—based on experiments that followed medieval Anglo- Saxon and ancient Chinese recipe books.65 While none of this proves that Talmudic plants would have been efficacious, at the very least it demonstrates that the rabbis participated in mankind’s eternal quest for healing by nature and may have known things that we do not”

[aygart]

Do you practice the remedies brought down in Meseches Gitin? Do you think they are effective (more so than a placebo?).

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=8918&st=&pgnum=171

[imayid2]

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=8918&st=&pgnum=171

רב שרירא גאון

[AsherO]

What are you trying to show?

All I need to see is truth + 613 + cancer treatments, and I know I should keep scrolling and ignore.

[Euclid]

All I need to see is truth + 613 + cancer treatments, and I know I should keep scrolling and ignore.

Can't remember the last time I saw the word "truth" used correctly online.

[Yehuda57]

Can't remember the last time I saw the word "truth" used correctly online.

^truth

[TheAsh]

It would be unfair to say they were nothing more than just placebo.
See ‘Medicine In The Talmud’ which is an excellent work on the subject.

None of this is relevant to the heeby jeeby type cures.

[aygart]

None of this is relevant to the heeby jeeby type cures.

Which is just about all of them. Almost all include some sort of lachash

[Yehuda57]

None of this is relevant to the heeby jeeby type cures.

Today's medicine is tomorrow's heeby jeeby. IY"H, I hope it is sooner rather than later, but I'm sure there will come a time when we will look at the likes of chemotherapy not just as heeby jeeby, but murder. That doesn't mean that patients should take the treatment today.

[aygart]

Today's medicine is tomorrow's heeby jeeby. IY"H, I hope it is sooner rather than later, but I'm sure there will come a time when we will look at the likes of chemotherapy not just as heeby jeeby, but murder. That doesn't mean that patients should take the treatment today.

All of the cures mentioned that include a lachash are hard to understand as being purely physical.

[imayid2]

In ancient Mesopotamia spirits were understood to be involved in causing sicknesses. The לחש was generally about excising those spirits. This was not specific to Jews, and even though some of these methods were questionable Chazal say כל שיש בו משום רפואה אין בו משום דרכי האמורי.