Author Topic: The Future of Lakewood  (Read 841476 times)

Offline aygart

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4560 on: March 13, 2024, 06:35:16 PM »
This myth that somehow going to yeshiva and learning gemara magically makes you smarter and more intelligent than someone that didn't needs to be debunked.

Yes, if you put the work in you can develop critical thinking skills which can be transferable to the outside, professional world. But 1) it's not magic - it's not going to make you smarter than someone similar to you intellectually who didn't go to yeshiva, 2) it's can only give you the skills up to a point.

Going to Yeshiva and wasting time not learning gemara definitely doesn't create those skills.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2024, 06:51:56 PM by aygart »
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline WayBackMachine

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4561 on: March 13, 2024, 06:38:18 PM »

Online EliJelly

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4562 on: March 13, 2024, 06:50:00 PM »
How would they make a parnassa? I'm confused

Through more suitable parnassa. You sometimes listen or witness utter dumbness by those professionals and wonder how in the world are they professors and not uber drivers.

Offline aygart

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4563 on: March 13, 2024, 07:00:23 PM »
If you stopped there I don't think anyone would argue with you.
Its a great story, but doesn't prove anything.
The upper decile or quartile of the Mesivta learning population are possibly smart enough that they can can catch up with out to much trouble. Even a bunch of stories about the guy who learned in kollel for X amount of years and then went straight to law school don't prove ANYTHING about the rest of the population, especialy those of below median metal aptitude or study habits. They will have a very difficult or even impossible task catching up.
There are plenty of guys out looking for work soon after BM who are at that point bec of mental ability and or zitzfleish not parnassa

There are many former lakewood graduates who have gone to get college or similar professional certifications (I write this to include things like PCS sponsored accounting which has from the highest CPA exam records in the state), but it is definitely more of a hurdle when there is catch-up to do. My son in pre-med got some help with some classes that he may not have needed with a full high school education. It will not be for everyone and there are likely to be some who get the raw end of this. At the end of the day, the yeshivishe economy is functioning in a manner that seems similar to other demographics. Are there some scammers? Yes, but I have yet to see any reason to believe they are more common than in other demographics, or even to see that they are equally common.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline avromie7

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4564 on: March 13, 2024, 07:11:59 PM »
where is this?
is it a typo?
Ave of the States
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline sylk

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4565 on: March 13, 2024, 07:52:11 PM »
Ave of the States
new shopping center they cleared the land recently

Offline dealfinder11

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4566 on: March 13, 2024, 09:23:22 PM »
There are many former lakewood graduates who have gone to get college or similar professional certifications (I write this to include things like PCS sponsored accounting which has from the highest CPA exam records in the state), but it is definitely more of a hurdle when there is catch-up to do. My son in pre-med got some help with some classes that he may not have needed with a full high school education. It will not be for everyone and there are likely to be some who get the raw end of this. At the end of the day, the yeshivishe economy is functioning in a manner that seems similar to other demographics. Are there some scammers? Yes, but I have yet to see any reason to believe they are more common than in other demographics, or even to see that they are equally common.

PCS sponsored accounting? Do you mean the FDU program offered through PCS? Great program but AFAIK it's a significant revenue generator. Not subsidized.

Offline WayBackMachine

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4567 on: March 13, 2024, 09:23:51 PM »




2016

Offline yitzgar

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4568 on: March 13, 2024, 10:03:48 PM »

Offline AsherO

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4569 on: March 13, 2024, 10:39:10 PM »
This thread is the giant tzifardeah of DDF

There’s much more than one thread for makas dumb
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

Offline aygart

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4570 on: March 13, 2024, 10:58:18 PM »
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline imayid2

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4571 on: March 13, 2024, 10:59:35 PM »
What percentage of guys from the “top” yeshivos, the ones whose alumni are in kollel for 5-10 years after marriage, end up pursuing a college degree? I imagine not many. I don’t see why it would make sense for those yeshivos to have English for that purpose.

Offline aygart

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4572 on: March 13, 2024, 11:00:45 PM »




2016

What strikes me the most here is how some of the prices here are not so different from now.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4573 on: March 13, 2024, 11:02:19 PM »
What percentage of guys from the “top” yeshivos, the ones whose alumni are in kollel for 5-10 years after marriage, end up pursuing a college degree? I imagine not many. I don’t see why it would make sense for those yeshivos to have English for that purpose.
This somewhat depends on how wide of a range you consider "top"
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline TheAsh

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4574 on: March 13, 2024, 11:19:07 PM »
What percentage of guys from the “top” yeshivos, the ones whose alumni are in kollel for 5-10 years after marriage, end up pursuing a college degree? I imagine not many. I don’t see why it would make sense for those yeshivos to have English for that purpose.

It would probably be higher if they didn't need to do a GED and could get credits from kollel.
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Offline dealmaster

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4575 on: March 13, 2024, 11:20:00 PM »
To clarify, you're proving your thesus (lack of secular education has little bearing on career opportunities) based on a single data point (your MD friend).
I specifically brought that data point to reference that professional options are still avaliable.  If you need data points on yeshiva graduates that are non professionals and are successful in business open the yellow pages
« Last Edit: March 13, 2024, 11:28:34 PM by dealmaster »
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Offline dealmaster

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4576 on: March 13, 2024, 11:27:00 PM »
1) Perhaps an education would help with paragraph breaks.
First off I received a quality education.  2nd, perhaps your Secular Education didn't include creative writing. Because if it did, I would think you would be familiar enough with literature to know that a paragraph preceded with the words "START RANT" will not follow typical grammatical rules.
2) The disregard of authority in mesivtas is a direct result of the mesivtos' education and attitudes. You can't create the problem and then say nah, we won't fix it!
I guess you have never been inside a public high school. Total lack of respect for anything, yet it is definitely not "a direct result of the mesivtos' education and attitudes".
« Last Edit: March 13, 2024, 11:34:03 PM by dealmaster »
"THE ONLY EASY DAY WAS YESTERDAY"-US NAVY SEALS-something any growing person will always bear in mindוהוי לומד מכל אדם

Offline imayid2

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4577 on: March 13, 2024, 11:31:39 PM »
It would probably be higher if they didn't need to do a GED and could get credits from kollel.
Slightly, but not enough to warrant it.

Offline aygart

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4578 on: March 14, 2024, 08:52:33 AM »
It would probably be higher if they didn't need to do a GED and could get credits from kollel.
Seriously? The vast majority of them end up in BMG where they can get a full BA!
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline dealfinder11

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4579 on: March 14, 2024, 01:38:03 PM »
Ok back to regular program. Big news coming on the legislative front.