The Future of Lakewood

[Euclid]

Depends what you mean by "support Israel"
As I understand it, from my upbringing and from my chinuch (45+ year in Lakewood and Lakewood type yeshivos)
Lakewood, and the Yeshiva World in general believe:

Eretz Yisrael: Every inch of land is Holy.
Secular Zionism: Bad, at times - evil.
Religious Zionism: Misguided
Establishment of the State of Israel: Mixed feelings. Might have been a necessary evil.
Holiness of the State of Israel: non existent.
The Flag: Zero religious significance, a symbol of a non Torah (and often, anti Torah) based political entity.
After the fact, publicly support the security needs of the State, including the IDF: Absolutely.

Not really looking to debate the merits of any of these points. Just clarifying what I believe the general mindset is.
 

Yeah I said it backwards; should've said that for the most part Lakewood isn't "anti Israel", and on a random day of the year there wouldnt be expression of hatred towards the flag.

[EliJelly]

Oh, no question. I wasn't wading into the "story" itself, which is a giant load of nothing. I didn't read the article, just the paragraphs quoted in this thread. The only thing surprising is that anyone would be surprised.

We must indict an entire neighborhood of tens of thousands of Jews based on the behaviour of a few people on Purim, of all days, responding to people wearing something they knew would be antagonistic. They could have had the article written before Purim.

I'm sure there were plenty who did, I see such pictures from all communities every year (this year was the tunnel digging angle, and it was popular in CH too). The difference is with this no one suspects them of dressing like that in solidarity, it is obviously being done ironically.

Great summary

[elazarb]

"The first occasion occurred on the corner of Central and where Madison turns into River. A person who looked like a Jew (wore a black hat, had a beard and payos), drove a car like a Jew (older version Toyota Sienna), screamed out the window with his entire family in the car “TZIYONIM!!!!”, his wife mortified at his behavior. The second incident happened at the corner of Jackson Pines and New Central, a couple of assumed inebriated young men tried pulling our Israeli Flag out of our car while screaming “TZIYONIM!!!! Sheigitz!!” The third incident occurred outside a shul in the Hearthstone neighborhood (since you think this is made up feel free to ask the shul and who the Rov is because I can whip up a “made up” name for you [ie I know the shul and the Rov, you idiots]) where a father egged on his young son to scream “why are you wearing a towel on your back?” to one of the members of our family who was wearing an Israeli flag. The fourth incident occurred at the corner of Mark and Pine where two adolescents almost had an aneurysm when they saw the Israeli flag- they screamed “TZIYONIM!”, came out our car with fists."
Hard to belive this story at all. As anyone who has driven in Lakewood knows, you can't really be at central and madison, then jackson pines and new central, heartstone, and then marc and pine all on the same day, certainly not on Purim!

[ari3]

"The first occasion occurred on the corner of Central and where Madison turns into River. A person who looked like a Jew (wore a black hat, had a beard and payos), drove a car like a Jew (older version Toyota Sienna), screamed out the window with his entire family in the car “TZIYONIM!!!!”, his wife mortified at his behavior. The second incident happened at the corner of Jackson Pines and New Central, a couple of assumed inebriated young men tried pulling our Israeli Flag out of our car while screaming “TZIYONIM!!!! Sheigitz!!” The third incident occurred outside a shul in the Hearthstone neighborhood (since you think this is made up feel free to ask the shul and who the Rov is because I can whip up a “made up” name for you [ie I know the shul and the Rov, you idiots]) where a father egged on his young son to scream “why are you wearing a towel on your back?” to one of the members of our family who was wearing an Israeli flag. The fourth incident occurred at the corner of Mark and Pine where two adolescents almost had an aneurysm when they saw the Israeli flag- they screamed “TZIYONIM!”, came out our car with fists."
Hard to belive this story at all. As anyone who has driven in Lakewood knows, you can't really be at central and madison, then jackson pines and new central, heartstone, and then marc and pine all on the same day, certainly not on Purim!

sounds like they were driving around looking for trouble.

[EliJelly]

sounds like they were driving around looking for trouble.

Just looking to inspire others with a "public display of a love for Eretz Yisroel".

[Eliyohu]

Good thing he wasn’t by the BMG Purim night Tish in Bais Aharon where the IDF and Israeli government was soundly lambasted in the speech.

I know someone who's flagged was ripped away from them at BMG and was explained "wouldn't you rip away a bad magazine from your friend if you saw him reading one"

[dealfinder11]

https://www.app.com/story/news/local/2024/03/26/lakewood-lobbied-state-aid-seeks-largest-loan-ever/73094330007/

[torashaman]

Dont understand what the problem is.
If i would walk through the 5 towns with a Palestinian flag the reactions would be much worse.

[Just A Jew]

Dont understand what the problem is.
If i would walk through the 5 towns with a Palestenian flag the reactions would be much worse.

Username checks out.

[Sammy82]

Dont understand what the problem is.
If i would walk through the 5 towns with a Palestinian flag the reactions would be much worse.

Not sure what much worse means but if you're saying that you would be attacked (even just verbally), I wouldn't bet on it. B"H our schools and many rabbonim teach our kids how to act to those who think differently from us, just as the parents in the community demonstrate/expect/reinforce.

[aygart]

Not sure what much worse means but if you're saying that you would be attacked (even just verbally), I wouldn't bet on it. B"H our schools and many rabbonim teach our kids how to act to those who think differently from us, just as the parents in the community demonstrate/expect/reinforce.

What about as neturei karta?

[Sammy82]

What about as neturei karta?

If they walk through our community? I don't think anything would happen. People would just ignore them. But I may be wrong.

[aygart]

If they walk through our community? I don't think anything would happen. People would just ignore them. But I may be wrong.

And I'm some of the more Zionist communities?

[Sammy82]

And I'm some of the more Zionist communities?

I can't speak for other communities. I also don't know how you rate the 5towns community and how you rate other communities.
But frankly, who cares?

[imayid2]

Not sure what much worse means but if you're saying that you would be attacked (even just verbally), I wouldn't bet on it. B"H our schools and many rabbonim teach our kids how to act to those who think differently from us, just as the parents in the community demonstrate/expect/reinforce.

I would bet on it

[yelped]

What about as neturei karta?

Who wouldn't?

[EliJelly]

And I'm some of the more Zionist communities?

There you go

Who wouldn't?

[EliJelly]

Verbally attacking NK in action is like spraying your water bottle on a wildfire.

[aygart]

There you go

So this is not about what they allegedly said but rather what they said it about?

[yelped]

Verbally attacking NK in action is like spraying your water bottle on a wildfire.

Agreed, but seeing "Jews" side with terrorists is not something that anyone can take sitting down.

This is not about arguing whether or not a State at this point of time is legitimate or not like Satmar and others.