The Future of Lakewood

[churnbabychurn]

Everything else!!! How much is a mortgage on a 5 million dollar building? Oh right, we already 'established' that it's 'covered' by the dinner and rich dudes.

And building funds

[MarkS]

And building funds

Right. So we 'know' that that's a non issue.
Phew

[churnbabychurn]

Don't hurt yourself while doing it. It's nonsense. I'm not sure if you've spent any significant time in bmg but I can assure you that no such takana ever existed. At most, since chassidim were few and far between at that time there was a feeling that it was a litvishe oasis and a streimel would be looked at sideways. It's impossible to understand until you've lived the lifestyle. The same thing applies now to colored shirts. There's no takana about it and occasionally, especially during the summer, you'll find a few YU guys in bais medrash with a blue shirt and lots of colored pencils. They're treated very nicely but it's amusing.. That's all. I personally know someone who's lived in yeshiva's shadow for decades, wears a streimel and went into bmg all the time. I feel the same way when I go to a Tish. The chassidim think I'm a little weird and I feel out of place but we live and let live.

You cannot assure anyone anything based on what you perceive as what should have been. You simply don't know.
I suggest you actually ask pp like R Berel Leifer, R O C Leiberman etc why they never entered Bmg with their shtreimals.

[jackofall]

Have you seen even a single budget for a local yeshiva?

There is a reason why they would never allow you to see their books. IMHO all mosdos/organizations that are funded with the public's money should be required to show their books so there should some accountability.

[grodnoking]

Don't hurt yourself while doing it. It's nonsense. I'm not sure if you've spent any significant time in bmg but I can assure you that no such takana ever existed. At most, since chassidim were few and far between at that time there was a feeling that it was a litvishe oasis and a streimel would be looked at sideways. It's impossible to understand until you've lived the lifestyle. The same thing applies now to colored shirts. There's no takana about it and occasionally, especially during the summer, you'll find a few YU guys in bais medrash with a blue shirt and lots of colored pencils. They're treated very nicely but it's amusing.. That's all. I personally know someone who's lived in yeshiva's shadow for decades, wears a streimel and went into bmg all the time. I feel the same way when I go to a Tish. The chassidim think I'm a little weird and I feel out of place but we live and let live.

True. I've walked into that chasidish shul on county line with two irreligious friends (leather jacket, jeans, and all), no one (besides the kids) had a problem, in fact they all tried to make sure they were happy, had thier coffee...

[MarkS]

There is a reason why they would never allow you to see their books. IMHO all mosdos/organizations that are funded with the public's money should be required to show their books so there should some accountability.

The problem with making their book public is people will start nitpicking on every tiny thing.

You spent how much on pizza?  Oy
Why aren't you switching to alternative energy?  You should really have solar panels.
What???  You pay the principal how much???
Why did you change so many lightbulbs?
Your janitorial supply costs are too much. Stop using Mr. Clean and switch to my Bro in law who is a supplier and is cheaper.

While some of the questions would be valid, many would be simple complaints from people that don't understand everything that goes into running a school .

Just look at some of the idiotic comments on TLS when discussing the BOE. Allowing everyone to nitpick at the budget will just get people more upset and for the most part won't bring about any constructive changes.  Too many cooks type of thing.

[yuneeq]

The problem with makingt heirr book public os people will start nitpicking on every tiny thing.

You spent how much on pizza?  Oy
Why aren't you switching to alternative energy?  You should really have solar panels.
What???  You pay the principal how much???

While some of the questions would be valid, many would be simple compalint from people that don't understand everything that goes into running a school .

Just look at some of the idiotic comments on TLS when discussing the BOE. Allowing everyone to nitpick at the budget will just get people more upset and for the most part won't bring about any constructive changes.

What about the millionaires supporting the schools, they have enough brains to understand a budget.
Shouldn't they be able to analyze it?

[jackofall]

The problem with makingt heirr book public os people will start nitpicking on every tiny thing.

You spent how much on pizza?  Oy
Why aren't you switching to alternative energy?  You should really have solar panels.
What???  You pay the principal how much???
Why did you change so many lightbulbs?
Your janitorial supply costs are too much. Stop using Mr. Clean and switch to my Bro in law who is a supplier and is cheaper.

While some of the questions would be valid, many would be simple compalint from people that don't understand everything that goes into running a school .

Just look at some of the idiotic comments on TLS when discussing the BOE. Allowing everyone to nitpick at the budget will just get people more upset and for the most part won't bring about any constructive changes.  Too many cooks type of thing.

So have a committee of responsible/professional individuals who will review.

[MarkS]

So have a committee of responsible/professional individuals who will review.

Most schools have that. It's called a Board of Directors.

[churnbabychurn]

What about the millionaires supporting the schools, they have enough brains to understand a budget.
Shouldn't they be able to analyze it?

Maybe they do.

The books are unaudited so it means nothing to me either way.

[jackofall]

Most schools have that. It's called a Board of Directors.

Dream on. Most school in LW are run by owner with NO oversight. Same with a lot of organizations that raise millions.

[grodnoking]

Fyi: If you want to do the math the cheder took in $22,322,950 in 2014.

[jackofall]

Maybe they do.

The books are unaudited so it means nothing to me either way.

Point of the committee would be to audit.

[aygart]

Fyi: If you want to do the math the cheder took in $22,322,950 in 2014.

what is your calculation?

[grodnoking]

what is your calculation?

Their documents

[aygart]

Their documents

which

[Emkay]

Unless yeshivas open up their books there's nothing else to work with...

Have you bother going down and asking them if you care that much or are they supposed to file their budget with hamodia? I know someone that didn't want to pay full tuition and was spewing the same garbage as you guys and asked to see the chesbon and was shown it
Obviously not referring necessarily to the behemoth schools

[Jkhein]

Can I just clarify something without upsetting anybody (probably not) but please tell me if this is in one sentence what this is all about?

A community that was started expressly for being the bastion of a certain kind of Torah hashkafa is now at risk of collapsing from within due to materialism and/or being simultaneously swallowed up for the outside by an influx of chasidim (mostly Satmar) from Brooklyn.

If I'm wrong, don't get offended; just correct me.

now this post takes the cake....
should we go through certain neighborhoods in Lakewood etc and start comparing the collapses of torah hashkafah? I think that will lead to lots of unnecessary Loshon hora, but you get the point.

[Freddie]

Again...I beg your forgiveness in advance but this thread answers all my questions by answering none of my questions. You see, what started as (I thought) a discussion of how to keep the original LW dream alive has immediately devolved into a Jackie Mason routine about Jews at a restaurant trying to figure out how much the guy makes.

Takke ein kemach ein Torah but when the discussion if money supplants the discussion if ideology then it is small wonder when that ideology is losing ground bgashmius (ein Torah ein kemach.)

I wonder where the real ideological Litvaks will go to begin anew  based on hashkafa and not on a business model.

[grodnoking]

which

Was searching online. Cant find it again. Heres 2003 thou 2003 Lakewood cheder.pdf
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B99cFiIyGDBpakxLcU5Db0dLS0k/view?usp=docslist_api
Everything is online, you just need to find it.