Author Topic: The Future of Lakewood  (Read 106078 times)

Offline yelped

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #880 on: May 08, 2021, 11:22:23 PM »
You're allowed to do much worse to a moser. He's the textbook example of one.
Let's say. Don't mess up Lakewood kids and ingrain in them gangster tactics and lifestyles.

Offline YitzyS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #881 on: May 08, 2021, 11:23:13 PM »
You're allowed to do much worse to a moser. He's the textbook example of one.
"textbook example" of a moser?

I'm not trying to defend him, but do you know of a specific case in which he called authorities and reported on someone? Yes, he posted damaging information in public, on his blog, and that MAY constitute mesirah, but I'm not certain that the label of "textbook moser" is an accurate depiction.

As an aside, the "textbook moser" may not even apply today, as it's clear from certain halachic works that the fear was that mesirah would lead to the government killing Jews, which is a long strech today. (I can cite sources if you are interested in the technicalities.)
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Offline Euclid

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #882 on: May 08, 2021, 11:25:58 PM »
This "gang" is being led/organized by a crazed bachur, so let's not get carried away that this is sanctioned by rabbonim because of mesira.

Offline dasmo801

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #883 on: May 08, 2021, 11:41:04 PM »
You're allowed to do much worse to a moser. He's the textbook example of one.
So why is it only 12 year old kids that aware of that halacha?
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Offline yzj

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #884 on: May 09, 2021, 12:08:52 AM »
"textbook example" of a moser?

I'm not trying to defend him, but do you know of a specific case in which he called authorities and reported on someone? Yes, he posted damaging information in public, on his blog, and that MAY constitute mesirah, but I'm not certain that the label of "textbook moser" is an accurate depiction.

As an aside, the "textbook moser" may not even apply today, as it's clear from certain halachic works that the fear was that mesirah would lead to the government killing Jews, which is a long strech today. (I can cite sources if you are interested in the technicalities.)
Is there anyone who claims that he has not massered to authorities on multiple occasions? Do you think 500 basement apartments just massered themselves? RUOC had more than one individual fomenting physical violence against frum Jews. He supplied them with material and helped stir things up. Just the tip of the iceberg.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2021, 12:14:45 AM by yzj »

Offline YitzyS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #885 on: May 09, 2021, 12:17:43 AM »
Is there anyone who claims that he has not massered to authorities on multiple occasions? Do you think 500 basement apartments just massered themselves? RUOC had more than one individual fomenting physical violence against frum Jews. He supplied them with material and helped stir things up. Just the tip of the iceberg.
I am not saying it didn't happen. What I do know is that there are other suspects, and that there are people who would benefit from painting SK as a moser.

I personally have no idea, and I would not be surprised if a rov would rule that posting damning info on Facebook is mesirah. I'm just pointing out that somebody has yet to show me proof that SK actually maasered on someone.

Side note: I know personally [first-hand information] that he threatened to maaser on people (which according to gemera B"K may suffice as a moser). I just don't know that it actually happened.
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Offline Euclid

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #886 on: May 09, 2021, 12:17:51 AM »
Do you think 500 basement apartments just massered themselves?
What's this? Massered to whom? Everyone and their uncle knows about the basement apartments.

Offline flyingace

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #887 on: May 09, 2021, 12:19:21 AM »
Basement apartments are legal in Lakewood for quite a while.

Offline yelped

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #888 on: May 09, 2021, 12:20:34 AM »
Whatever, this whole thing about massering is a side point and a distraction, which is the whole point of the people responsible for the corruption anyways. They feel like they can get away with anything and just silence people by claiming that they're "massering". That's not how things work, buddy.

Offline Moshe123

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #889 on: May 09, 2021, 12:22:46 AM »
Yeah, I guess the mosrim in the alte heim also had some fringe supporters.

Offline Moshe123

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #890 on: May 09, 2021, 12:23:07 AM »
So why is it only 12 year old kids that aware of that halacha?

Probably easier to get away with.

Offline Euclid

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #891 on: May 09, 2021, 12:23:14 AM »
Whatever, this whole thing about massering is a side point and a distraction, which is the whole point of the people responsible for the corruption anyways. They feel like they can get away with anything and just silence people by claiming that they're "massering". That's not how things work, buddy.
+1000

Classic diversionary gaslighting.

"Look at this moiser, instead of focusing on how we're destroying (read:destroyed) the town".

Offline Euclid

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #892 on: May 09, 2021, 12:27:15 AM »
SK has done way less harm to the image of Lakewood than greedy developers and their minions. And by arguing about whether or not he's a moiser and deserves XYZ just plays into the misdirection.

"We're not the baddies."

(Again, this doesn't mean I condone his behavior.)

Offline YitzyS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #893 on: May 09, 2021, 12:32:58 AM »
The biggest issue with Lakewood is that those who have chosen to speak up have been attacked, which drives them to go too far and thus lose their credibility.

It takes tremendous restraint to speak up and not try to retaliate when you are ostracized for it.
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Offline yelped

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #894 on: May 09, 2021, 12:33:30 AM »
Yeah, I guess the mosrim in the alte heim also had some fringe supporters.
Classic. Thanks for proving my point. (Nothing personal).

Offline yzj

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #895 on: May 09, 2021, 12:40:02 AM »
+1000

Classic diversionary gaslighting.

"Look at this moiser, instead of focusing on how we're destroying (read:destroyed) the town".
Unless there is something I am unaware of I believe the latest flare up was due to SK massering on a yeshiva quite a drive from Lakewood. Are you more comfortable with mesirah because itís the big bad developers fault? Never mind that yeshivos, individuals, rabbanim, and chessed organizations are all targets.

Offline YitzyS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #896 on: May 09, 2021, 12:41:54 AM »
I know personally [first-hand information] that he threatened to maaser on people
I'm surprised nobody is curious to know more about this...  ;)
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Offline Eliyohu

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #897 on: May 09, 2021, 12:45:23 AM »
I'm surprised nobody is curious to know more about this...  ;)
You, personally?

Offline YitzyS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #898 on: May 09, 2021, 12:46:15 AM »
You, personally?
He didn't threaten me. He told me that he threatened someone else.
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Offline LNS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #899 on: May 09, 2021, 12:49:24 AM »
i don't understand why he gets any attention for this at all
honestly i feel like everyone needs to stop reacting to him