Author Topic: The Future of Lakewood  (Read 106886 times)

Offline Super Speed

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The Future of Lakewood
« on: January 03, 2016, 01:23:47 AM »
Please continue the discussion from the Lakewood NJ Master Thread over here.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2016, 01:26:57 AM by Super Speed »

Offline David Smith

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2016, 01:28:04 AM »
Is this what Reb Ahron had in mind when he started a community outside Brooklyn to be a yeshiva enclave?
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Offline MarkS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2016, 01:28:23 AM »
At the Yeshiva Orchos Chaim dinner it was announced they are giving a 10K raise for Rebbeim! With the calls for Raising Rebeim salaries OC took the initiative. Rabbi Ozeri who brought the plight to the public was the guest speaker the anouncment was made before his speech. This puts pressure on other mosdos to follow. Question is if they will also raise tuition.

Offline David Smith

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2016, 01:42:26 AM »
Many of the people buying the big houses started out in kollel and are now working, but they want to stay in the community they're raising their families in. Many Flatbush emigrees came to join their children. However, this all started from the yeshiva and kollel. Lakewood is no longer the sole post EY option, and multiple other yeshivos are growing. With the housing prices as prohibitive as they are for starting yeshiva couples, what's gonna bring the next generation?
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Offline yuneeq

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2016, 02:30:23 AM »
Many of the people buying the big houses started out in kollel and are now working, but they want to stay in the community they're raising their families in. Many Flatbush emigrees came to join their children. However, this all started from the yeshiva and kollel. Lakewood is no longer the sole post EY option, and multiple other yeshivos are growing. With the housing prices as prohibitive as they are for starting yeshiva couples, what's gonna bring the next generation?

If the prices get too high and prevent the next generation from moving in, then great,
that will help lower the house prices for current residents.

Offline Freddie

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2016, 02:49:02 AM »
Can I just clarify something without upsetting anybody (probably not) but please tell me if this is in one sentence what this is all about?

A community that was started expressly for being the bastion of a certain kind of Torah hashkafa is now at risk of collapsing from within due to materialism and/or being simultaneously swallowed up for the outside by an influx of chasidim (mostly Satmar) from Brooklyn.

If I'm wrong, don't get offended; just correct me.

Offline Emkay

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2016, 03:02:22 AM »
Can I just clarify something without upsetting anybody (probably not) but please tell me if this is in one sentence what this is all about?

A community that was started expressly for being the bastion of a certain kind of Torah hashkafa is now at risk of collapsing from within due to materialism and/or being simultaneously swallowed up for the outside by an influx of chasidim (mostly Satmar) from Brooklyn.

If I'm wrong, don't get offended; just correct me.
Not just at risk. Way beyond that at this point

Offline Super Speed

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2016, 07:10:35 AM »
Not just at risk. Way beyond that at this point
Correct, that ship has long sailed.

Offline Mordyk

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2016, 07:49:38 AM »
Can I just clarify something without upsetting anybody (probably not) but please tell me if this is in one sentence what this is all about?

A community that was started expressly for being the bastion of a certain kind of Torah hashkafa is now at risk of collapsing from within due to materialism and/or being simultaneously swallowed up for the outside by an influx of chasidim (mostly Satmar) from Brooklyn.

If I'm wrong, don't get offended; just correct me.
I believe that is true and i can say i will hopefully soon be one of "those chasidim". But i also believe that every neighborhood evolves over time for one reason or another. See how many chasidim live in flatbush already. And see that boro park became way more chasidish than 20 years ago.  Thats just what happens. If for me there is an opportunity in lakewood i would go for it without thinking about the forefathers intentions   ;)
#TYH

Offline yhaller14

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2016, 07:52:28 AM »
Can I just clarify something without upsetting anybody (probably not) but please tell me if this is in one sentence what this is all about?

A community that was started expressly for being the bastion of a certain kind of Torah hashkafa is now at risk of collapsing from within due to materialism and/or being simultaneously swallowed up for the outside by an influx of chasidim (mostly Satmar) from Brooklyn.

If I'm wrong, don't get offended; just correct me.
+1000, and they're (satmar mostly) doing the same exact thing to Monsey
"In the end we only regret the chances we didn't take"

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2016, 07:57:01 AM »
Just to clear up the shtreimal questions. Up until ~ 15 years ago there was an (un)official takana in Bmg not to bring a shtreimal into the Beis medrash.
The effect of this was that for the most part, people only wore shtreimals at home, Bmg was the center of the community.

Offline TimT

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2016, 08:06:18 AM »
Just to clear up the shtreimal questions. Up until ~ 15 years ago there was an (un)official takana in Bmg not to bring a shtreimal into the Beis medrash.
The effect of this was that for the most part, people only wore shtreimals at home, Bmg was the center of the community.
Just curious, why was there such a takana ?

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2016, 08:07:57 AM »


At the Yeshiva Orchos Chaim dinner it was announced they are giving a 10K raise for Rebbeim! With the calls for Raising Rebeim salaries OC took the initiative. Rabbi Ozeri who brought the plight to the public was the guest speaker the anouncment was made before his speech. This puts pressure on other mosdos to follow. Question is if they will also raise tuition.

As I posted below, the large yeshivos should be flush with extra cash. This raise is proof. It's about time they shared some with the rebbeim.
I'm sure they will attempt to squeeze parents that could be squeezed though.

A 4yo playgroup can comfortably charge 225 per month, while primary school charges 450 tuition. Why?
I'm crunching the numbers, and its pretty clear that owning a school is an excellent buisness idea.
Think about a brand new school with just a primary class, how is his overhead douple that of the playgroup? ... As the school grows, tuition revenue increases, fixed costs are fixed.. Contribution margin grow$$$

Offline ChAiM'l

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2016, 08:23:28 AM »
Just to clear up the shtreimal questions. Up until ~ 15 years ago there was an (un)official takana in Bmg not to bring a shtreimal into the Beis medrash.

Wow. What would happen if someone would wear one (regularly)?

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2016, 08:26:53 AM »
Wow. What would happen if someone would wear one (regularly)?
Noone had the chutzpah.
Back then ppl generally shteld tzu.. Not anymore

Online grodnoking

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2016, 08:35:25 AM »
At the Yeshiva Orchos Chaim dinner it was announced they are giving a 10K raise for Rebbeim! With the calls for Raising Rebeim salaries OC took the initiative. Rabbi Ozeri who brought the plight to the public was the guest speaker the anouncment was made before his speech. This puts pressure on other mosdos to follow. Question is if they will also raise tuition.

Many of the people buying the big houses started out in kollel and are now working, but they want to stay in the community they're raising their families in. Many Flatbush emigrees came to join their children. However, this all started from the yeshiva and kollel. Lakewood is no longer the sole post EY option, and multiple other yeshivos are growing. With the housing prices as prohibitive as they are for starting yeshiva couples, what's gonna bring the next generation?
Yeshiva owned houses. Like darchai, only here it'll be saving so much more being there will be no 7k land tax.
Once they do that there will be no reason to raise salaries
I'm not who you think I am.

Online grodnoking

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2016, 08:40:34 AM »

As I posted below, the large yeshivos should be flush with extra cash. This raise is proof. It's about time they shared some with the rebbeim.
I'm sure they will attempt to squeeze parents that could be squeezed though.
Lets just for pretend say that everyone is giving 5k to yeshiva a year. With a horrible 1:10 ratio staff to student (its probably a smaller ratio) that is only 50k to each teacher. Before the overhead. So lets say 40k pp. This is a very optimistic scenario.  Now where do you make money?
I'm not who you think I am.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2016, 08:42:05 AM »
Lets just for pretend say that everyone is giving 5k to yeshiva a year. With a horrible 1:10 ratio staff to student (its probably a smaller ratio) that is only 50k to each teacher. Before the overhead. So lets say 40k pp. This is a very optimistic scenario.  Now where do you make money?
One rebbe for ~28 students and one pt English teacher.
That's ~140 k

Offline good sam

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2016, 08:43:24 AM »
If the prices get too high and prevent the next generation from moving in, then great,
that will help lower the house prices for current residents.
Reminds me of Yogi Berra- "nobody goes there, it's too crowded."
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Online grodnoking

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2016, 08:43:31 AM »


One rebbe for ~28 students and one pt English teacher.
That's ~140 k

Ha. Other hanhala members and secretaries. And the English teaches need to get paid alot better than rabbis or they wont show up.
I'm not who you think I am.