Author Topic: The Future of Lakewood  (Read 41239 times)

Offline Adam101

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2016, 09:51:38 AM »
How much do rebbeim get paid?
I'm imagining 65k + free tuition for their kids (10-25k value)
you're right but that's a huuuge gap
Let me narrow it down for you. 17k-25k

Offline MarkS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2016, 09:59:05 AM »


He lays out Rebbeim's salaries in NY and it's a lot less.  His main point is that people won't want to become Rebbeim because of the low salaries and we are missing out on talent. In Lakewood that's not an issue as there are tons of people looking for a job as a Rebbe and the schools are able to choose from tons of applicants to fill roles. 

It's still a valid point though that at the current salaries we are short changing our Rebbeim by not providing enough for them.

Offline MarkS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2016, 10:01:11 AM »
you're right but that's a huuuge gap
Let me narrow it down for you. 17k-25k
A) It's not a given that Rebbeim get free tuition.  B) Many in LKWD pay just $3,500 tuition.  Give the Rebbe 5  boys and then IF he gets free tuition it's 17.5.

I'm not so sure that Lakewood schools give free tuition at all though.

Offline Adam101

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2016, 10:02:22 AM »
A) It's not a given that Rebbeim get free tuition.  B) Many in LKWD pay just $3,500 tuition.  Give the Rebbe 5  boys and then IF he gets free tuition it's 17.5.

I'm not so sure that Lakewood schools give free tuition at all though.
I wasn't the one that said they do. I was putting numbers on how much teachers get paid. That's all.

Offline Ez

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2016, 10:04:33 AM »
Can I just clarify something without upsetting anybody (probably not) but please tell me if this is in one sentence what this is all about?

A community that was started expressly for being the bastion of a certain kind of Torah hashkafa is now at risk of collapsing from within due to materialism and/or being simultaneously swallowed up for the outside by an influx of chasidim (mostly Satmar) from Brooklyn.

If I'm wrong, don't get offended; just correct me.
As far as I know, there may be an influx of chasidim, but Satmar is probably a tiny fraction of them.

They did indeed announce a new development for satmar people in the outskirts of Lakewood, but that won't be completed before at least 2 more years, and meanwhile they don't even have mosdos over there.

Offline MarkS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2016, 10:16:25 AM »
https ://vimeo.com/147238413

See 9:35.

Average starting entry level salary 30-40K. After 20 years between 50-60K. After 25 years  -"you're burnt out, go home".

And Lakewood is probably lower.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2016, 10:18:02 AM »


He lays out Rebbeim's salaries in NY and it's a lot less.  His main point is that people won't want to become Rebbeim because of the low salaries and we are missing out on talent. In Lakewood that's not an issue as there are tons of people looking for a job as a Rebbe and the schools are able to choose from tons of applicants to fill roles. 

It's still a valid point though that at the current salaries we are short changing our Rebbeim by not providing enough for them.
Can't watch it , but if Lakewood rabbeim get only 45-55 then the schools can definitely afford to give them more.

You are correct though that in Lakewood the supply of Rabbeim is huge. There is no real market reason to rais them.

And btw, If giving the more cuts them off the ~ 60k value of gov programs and tax rebates it will be a big disservice.

Offline MarkS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2016, 10:20:42 AM »
Can't watch it , but if Lakewood rabbeim get only 45-55 then the schools can definitely afford to give them more.

You are correct though that in Lakewood the supply of Rabbeim is huge. There is no real market reason to rais them.

And btw, If giving the more cuts them off the ~ 60k value of gov programs and tax rebates it will be a big disservice.

See post above where I transcribed the amounts. I think you're missing out on tons of overhead and misc expenses. Running a building is expensive. A school with 4 parallel classes has a huge mortgage, tons of ancillary costs, etc 

Offline MarkS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2016, 10:23:25 AM »
Yeshiva owned houses. Like darchai, only here it'll be saving so much more being there will be no 7k land tax.
Once they do that there will be no reason to raise salaries
Wrong answer. Yeshivas have been doing that only they build dozens of houses off the tax roll. It's the latest way for yeshivas to save money off the backs of taxpayers. Once they get the golden 'campus' designation they can build as many houses as they want tax free. They can then rent it out to whoever they want and make a lot more than a regular landlord makes.
In the past year or two the township cracked down on this because it was being abused.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2016, 10:28:24 AM »


See post above where I transcribed the amounts. I think you're missing out on tons of overhead and misc expenses. Running a building is expensive. A school with 4 parallel classes has a huge mortgage, tons of ancillary costs, etc

The dinners, building campaigns and big donors fund the mortgage.

Yes there are plenty of fixed costs. But they are more than covered. IMHO.

There is an assumption that all the schools are struggling to survive. The mosdos must keep this perception alive because it is a vital fundraising tool... It's not really true.

Online yelped

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2016, 10:31:47 AM »
Can anyone please write a valid reason that Shtreimel's weren't allowed in BMG? Other than petty political and power reasons?

Online Ephcc90

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #41 on: January 03, 2016, 10:33:49 AM »


The dinners, building campaigns and big donors fund the mortgage.

Yes there are plenty of fixed costs. But they are more than covered. IMHO.

There is an assumption that all the schools are struggling to survive. The mosdos must keep this perception alive because it is a vital fundraising tool... It's not really true.
Is this all conjecture or do you have any first hand knowledge?

Offline MarkS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #42 on: January 03, 2016, 10:39:38 AM »

The dinners, building campaigns and big donors fund the mortgage.
Yes there are plenty of fixed costs. But they are more than covered. IMHO.
There is an assumption that all the schools are struggling to survive. The mosdos must keep this perception alive because it is a vital fundraising tool... It's not really true.
Have you seen even a single budget for a local yeshiva? Or is this all based on presumptions?
Conjecture like this without any real knowledge is dangerous.

See I 'know' that bakery owners make a killing. I posted this once before but appropriate here as well.

Did you know that every day Bagel nosh makes over $1,000,000? They sell an easy 1,052,632 bagels a day (when I was in there for 5 minutes there were at least 50 people there- you do the math). It costs them barely anything to make since water is just a penny per bagel, flour doesn't cost all that much (maybe 2 cents), and how much do you think the workers make already? (1 cent per bagel). Add in a penny for some electricity for the oven and say that all adds up to MAYBE 5 cents per bagel.
Can you imagine!! That's 1 million dollars profit per day!!!

And plus a little on the side from selling donuts too!!!!!!

Offline george

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2016, 10:40:35 AM »
Is this all conjecture or do you have any first hand knowledge?
+1
You sound like you're shooting off the hip.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #44 on: January 03, 2016, 10:41:24 AM »


Is this all conjecture or do you have any first hand knowledge?

Conjecture based on analysing the revenue from tuition, the variable cost of Rabbeim salaries, and then overhead like building maintenance, salary for a couple of secretaries, bookkeeping, utilities.

Gov grants more than cover lunch etc.

You tell me where I'm wrong? Schools arn't exactly closing down left and right... We also don't hear horror stories about millions in debt (like we used to hear about the cheder years ago )
So they're definitely managing. The question is if and how much is the surplus.