Author Topic: The Future of Lakewood  (Read 106857 times)

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2016, 09:04:20 AM »

Ha. Other hanhala members and secretaries. And the English teaches need to get paid alot better than rabbis or they wont show up.
I'm not sure if you are realizing that if a school has only 4 parallel classes and only 20k per class goes to overhead. (Ie hanhala, support staff, utilities) we are at 720k.

We didn't even touch upon the many grants that they get.

Offline Super Speed

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2016, 09:24:34 AM »

Ha. Other hanhala members and secretaries. And the English teaches need to get paid alot better than rabbis or they wont show up.
English teachers do not get paid more than Rabbaim. Fact.

Offline Adam101

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2016, 09:29:25 AM »
English teachers do not get paid more than Rabbaim. Fact.
+1000

Offline grodnoking

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2016, 09:31:24 AM »
English teachers do not get paid more than Rabbaim. Fact.
I stand corrected
I'm not who you think I am.

Offline semper fi

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2016, 09:31:26 AM »
English teachers do not get paid more than Rabbaim. Fact.
Proportionally for the anount of hours they work they do get paid more.

Offline grodnoking

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2016, 09:36:06 AM »
Proportionally for the anount of hours they work they do get paid more.
Just did the math. If you are including the work it involves out of school Maybe.
I'm not who you think I am.

Offline sharkky

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2016, 09:45:11 AM »
English teachers do not get paid more than Rabbaim. Fact.
+1000
Proportionally for the anount of hours they work they do get paid more.
how much do english teachers get paid?

Offline Adam101

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2016, 09:46:36 AM »
how much do english teachers get paid?
Every school is different

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2016, 09:48:47 AM »
how much do english teachers get paid?
How much do rebbeim get paid?
I'm imagining 65k + free tuition for their kids (10-25k value)

Offline MarkS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2016, 09:50:44 AM »
How much do rebbeim get paid?
I'm imagining 65k + free tuition for their kids (10-25k value)
Hahaha ha.  You need to listen to Rabbi Ozeri's speech from the Agudah convention.  Keep in mind, he is talking about NY and I imagine salaries are lower here.

Offline Adam101

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2016, 09:51:38 AM »
How much do rebbeim get paid?
I'm imagining 65k + free tuition for their kids (10-25k value)
you're right but that's a huuuge gap
Let me narrow it down for you. 17k-25k

Offline MarkS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2016, 09:59:05 AM »


He lays out Rebbeim's salaries in NY and it's a lot less.  His main point is that people won't want to become Rebbeim because of the low salaries and we are missing out on talent. In Lakewood that's not an issue as there are tons of people looking for a job as a Rebbe and the schools are able to choose from tons of applicants to fill roles. 

It's still a valid point though that at the current salaries we are short changing our Rebbeim by not providing enough for them.

Offline MarkS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2016, 10:01:11 AM »
you're right but that's a huuuge gap
Let me narrow it down for you. 17k-25k
A) It's not a given that Rebbeim get free tuition.  B) Many in LKWD pay just $3,500 tuition.  Give the Rebbe 5  boys and then IF he gets free tuition it's 17.5.

I'm not so sure that Lakewood schools give free tuition at all though.

Offline Adam101

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2016, 10:02:22 AM »
A) It's not a given that Rebbeim get free tuition.  B) Many in LKWD pay just $3,500 tuition.  Give the Rebbe 5  boys and then IF he gets free tuition it's 17.5.

I'm not so sure that Lakewood schools give free tuition at all though.
I wasn't the one that said they do. I was putting numbers on how much teachers get paid. That's all.

Offline Ez

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2016, 10:04:33 AM »
Can I just clarify something without upsetting anybody (probably not) but please tell me if this is in one sentence what this is all about?

A community that was started expressly for being the bastion of a certain kind of Torah hashkafa is now at risk of collapsing from within due to materialism and/or being simultaneously swallowed up for the outside by an influx of chasidim (mostly Satmar) from Brooklyn.

If I'm wrong, don't get offended; just correct me.
As far as I know, there may be an influx of chasidim, but Satmar is probably a tiny fraction of them.

They did indeed announce a new development for satmar people in the outskirts of Lakewood, but that won't be completed before at least 2 more years, and meanwhile they don't even have mosdos over there.

Offline MarkS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2016, 10:16:25 AM »
https ://vimeo.com/147238413

See 9:35.

Average starting entry level salary 30-40K. After 20 years between 50-60K. After 25 years  -"you're burnt out, go home".

And Lakewood is probably lower.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2016, 10:18:02 AM »


He lays out Rebbeim's salaries in NY and it's a lot less.  His main point is that people won't want to become Rebbeim because of the low salaries and we are missing out on talent. In Lakewood that's not an issue as there are tons of people looking for a job as a Rebbe and the schools are able to choose from tons of applicants to fill roles. 

It's still a valid point though that at the current salaries we are short changing our Rebbeim by not providing enough for them.
Can't watch it , but if Lakewood rabbeim get only 45-55 then the schools can definitely afford to give them more.

You are correct though that in Lakewood the supply of Rabbeim is huge. There is no real market reason to rais them.

And btw, If giving the more cuts them off the ~ 60k value of gov programs and tax rebates it will be a big disservice.

Offline MarkS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2016, 10:20:42 AM »
Can't watch it , but if Lakewood rabbeim get only 45-55 then the schools can definitely afford to give them more.

You are correct though that in Lakewood the supply of Rabbeim is huge. There is no real market reason to rais them.

And btw, If giving the more cuts them off the ~ 60k value of gov programs and tax rebates it will be a big disservice.

See post above where I transcribed the amounts. I think you're missing out on tons of overhead and misc expenses. Running a building is expensive. A school with 4 parallel classes has a huge mortgage, tons of ancillary costs, etc 

Offline MarkS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2016, 10:23:25 AM »
Yeshiva owned houses. Like darchai, only here it'll be saving so much more being there will be no 7k land tax.
Once they do that there will be no reason to raise salaries
Wrong answer. Yeshivas have been doing that only they build dozens of houses off the tax roll. It's the latest way for yeshivas to save money off the backs of taxpayers. Once they get the golden 'campus' designation they can build as many houses as they want tax free. They can then rent it out to whoever they want and make a lot more than a regular landlord makes.
In the past year or two the township cracked down on this because it was being abused.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2016, 10:28:24 AM »


See post above where I transcribed the amounts. I think you're missing out on tons of overhead and misc expenses. Running a building is expensive. A school with 4 parallel classes has a huge mortgage, tons of ancillary costs, etc

The dinners, building campaigns and big donors fund the mortgage.

Yes there are plenty of fixed costs. But they are more than covered. IMHO.

There is an assumption that all the schools are struggling to survive. The mosdos must keep this perception alive because it is a vital fundraising tool... It's not really true.