Author Topic: The Future of Lakewood  (Read 579389 times)

Offline dasmo801

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #800 on: April 29, 2021, 03:31:08 PM »
Should the L"B event discussion be split into its own thread?

I can't think of a better title for this discussion than "The Future of Lakewood"

Offline dasmo801

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #801 on: April 29, 2021, 03:34:47 PM »
Even the ones with a full blown symphony and the biggest names in Jewish music?

They are undoubtedly a waste of resources and ein ruach chachomim noche himenu but the majority of people who are attending that wedding are not going with a hinini muchan u'muzuman to spend the next two hours in a brain dead trance watching someone perform, in a room with 1,000 other people who made a siilmar hinini muchan u'muzuman. (Sorry, I dont say L'shem yichud)

Online Yehuda57

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #802 on: April 29, 2021, 03:35:51 PM »
There has never been a concert in Lakewood. And by a concert, I mean an event where the main attraction is sitting and watching a singer perform. I don't expect anyone who didn't grow up in this environment to understand where they are coming from and it would be a waste of time to try and explain it. The stadium was only one concern mentioned in the letter.

I don't know what environment OP grew up in, but I'd be shocked if he has attended a concert in the last 30 years. I'm sure he understands the sentiment perfectly.

Having said that, there has been no concert at all? Even Uncle Moishy? Color me skeptical.

My point is, the definition of concert is fungible. The event doesn't advertise a concert, only an appearance by Benny Friedman at a Lag Baomer rally. If the rally is like the others I'm familiar with, it really is not a concert, but a gathering with Torah, Tefillah, Tzedakah, and yes, some musical entertainment. Even the reincarnated Great Parade in Crown Heights in 5770 separated the concert from the parade.

If the dissenters would come out and say, "don't send your kids, it's a Chabad event and we don't agree with their hashkafa, vchulu," that would be more honest and understandable to me than coming up with excuses like the stadium and "concerts" which will fall away under scrutiny.

Offline Essen est zich

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Offline dasmo801

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #804 on: April 29, 2021, 03:41:35 PM »
I don't know what environment OP grew up in, but I'd be shocked if he has attended a concert in the last 30 years. I'm sure he understands the sentiment perfectly.

Having said that, there has been no concert at all? Even Uncle Moishy? Color me skeptical.

My point is, the definition of concert is fungible. The event doesn't advertise a concert, only an appearance by Benny Friedman at a Lag Baomer rally. If the rally is like the others I'm familiar with, it really is not a concert, but a gathering with Torah, Tefillah, Tzedakah, and yes, some musical entertainment. Even the reincarnated Great Parade in Crown Heights in 5770 separated the concert from the parade.

If the dissenters would come out and say, "don't send your kids, it's a Chabad event and we don't agree with their hashkafa, vchulu," that would be more honest and understandable to me than coming up with excuses like the stadium and "concerts" which will fall away under scrutiny.

Chabad victim complex notwithstanding, based on my 40+ years living in Lakewood, I really don't believe that the Chabad angle was the primary motivation.

Offline Lurker

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #805 on: April 29, 2021, 03:44:48 PM »
I can't think of a better title for this discussion than "The Future of Lakewood"

On that note... The reality is that Lakewood is changing drastically, from both inside and out. If the hashkafos of the community are paramount, it's time to stop playing checkers and start playing chess. When an event like this comes up, there are ways to control the program to be in line with your hashkafos instead of banning it. The event will happen anyway. Control the battlefield, don't die on it.
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Offline Lurker

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #806 on: April 29, 2021, 03:45:27 PM »
Chabad victim complex notwithstanding, based on my 40+ years living in Lakewood, I really don't believe that the Chabad angle was the primary motivation.

It most definitely was a factor for some, as evidenced by the fake robocalls.
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Offline nucheiner

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The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #807 on: April 29, 2021, 03:45:52 PM »
IMHO the issue is the Concert nature of the event. Not to say there have never been similar type events but this one became the bulls eye. The supposed meshichist issue is the “mail fraud” charge against this matter.

Bottom line, Lakewood ain’t Lakewood but it comes a point when the ‘ol Lakewoodwooders get out there and scream “SHABBOS”

TLS has alot of chutzpa for saying publicly that the RY missed the boat. Using that claim you can reverse any rabbinic guidance. If he was sure let him go to the RY to discuss. Bottom line hes now a trained Lkwd Vaad member, use the RY when needed and discard when not needed.

Online Yehuda57

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #808 on: April 29, 2021, 03:50:08 PM »
Chabad victim complex notwithstanding, based on my 40+ years living in Lakewood, I really don't believe that the Chabad angle was the primary motivation.

Lol, I say that it makes perfect sense to not want to send your kids to a Chabad event and you call that a victim complex? Ok.

Offline dasmo801

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #809 on: April 29, 2021, 03:51:42 PM »
On that note... The reality is that Lakewood is changing drastically, from both inside and out. If the hashkafos of the community are paramount, it's time to stop playing checkers and start playing chess. When an event like this comes up, there are ways to control the program to be in line with your hashkafos instead of banning it. The event will happen anyway. Control the battlefield, don't die on it.

Maybe if it was scheduled for Chol Hamoed that would be an option. A major event on Lag Baomer a, day that was traditionally marked in Lakewood by the lack of recital of tachnun, is a non starter.

Offline dasmo801

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #810 on: April 29, 2021, 03:53:26 PM »
Lol, I say that it makes perfect sense to not want to send your kids to a Chabad event and you call that a victim complex? Ok.

Your premise is that it was all about Chabad and everything else was just a smokescreen. That's where the victim complex comes in.

Online EliJelly

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #811 on: April 29, 2021, 03:53:53 PM »
there are ways to control the program to be in line with your hashkafos instead of banning it. .
Make an agreement to sing only L"B songs like, בר יוחאי, ואמרתם כה לחי, אמר רבי עקיבא, and who will dare calling that a concert  :)

(Have someone ready to unplug the music in case chas v'shulom he starts to sing די רבי האט גיהייסין פרייליך זיין :D )

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #812 on: April 29, 2021, 03:57:48 PM »

TLS has alot of chutzpa

I don't know anything about their site, but if its anything like other "community" websites:


[T]he site itself would never be approved of by any rabonim.
[T]he site is based on lashon hara, heipach hatznius and and denigrates and arguably [sic] does more than any other ill to tear at the fabric of true Jewish life.

ועוד

Online Yehuda57

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #813 on: April 29, 2021, 04:10:11 PM »
Your premise is that it was all about Chabad and everything else was just a smokescreen. That's where the victim complex comes in.

Lag Baomer a, day that was traditionally marked in Lakewood by the lack of recital of tachnun, is a non starter.

I wasn't saying, "Don't send your kids because Chabad sucks"

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #814 on: April 29, 2021, 04:17:32 PM »
Maybe if it was scheduled for Chol Hamoed that would be an option. A major event on Lag Baomer a, day that was traditionally marked in Lakewood by the lack of recital of tachnun, is a non starter.

Except the event is happening, and people from Lakewood are going. Maybe not nearly as many without the ban, but it's happening nonetheless. There are big picture consequences to this, no matter how the people who go are dealt with. Chess, not checkers. This isn't the 80s or the 90s.
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Offline dasmo801

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #815 on: April 29, 2021, 04:19:30 PM »
I wasn't saying, "Don't send your kids because Chabad sucks"

I know. You were saying everyone is out to get us.

Offline yitzgar

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #816 on: April 29, 2021, 04:24:55 PM »




My point is, the definition of concert is fungible. The event doesn't advertise a concert, only an appearance by Benny Friedman at a Lag Baomer rally. If the rally is like the others I'm familiar with, it really is not a concert, but a gathering with Torah, Tefillah, Tzedakah, and yes, some musical entertainment.

This is what he meant when he said you won't understand if you didn't grow up in a certain environment. In litvishe yeshivish hashkafa, while there may not be anything wrong with this, and it may be a positive experience for some, it's not a place where a "Ben Torah" should be going, especially on lag beomee.

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #817 on: April 29, 2021, 04:26:53 PM »
I know. You were saying everyone is out to get us.


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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #818 on: April 29, 2021, 04:27:41 PM »
I know. You were saying everyone is out to get us.

With all due respect, there were comments in this very thread saying they don't want their kids to be exposed to Lubavitchers telling them to make the Rebbe proud. There's no denying the anti-Lubavitch undercurrents to this, even if there are other legitimate reasons.
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Online Yehuda57

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #819 on: April 29, 2021, 04:37:30 PM »

This is what he meant when he said you won't understand if you didn't grow up in a certain environment. In litvishe yeshivish hashkafa, while there may not be anything wrong with this, and it may be a positive experience for some, it's not a place where a "Ben Torah" should be going, especially on lag beomee.

Which is *exactly* my point. The "ban" has nothing to do with the stadium or how you define concert. Peace out