Author Topic: The Future of Lakewood  (Read 516632 times)

Online yelped

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2880 on: May 15, 2023, 08:34:07 PM »
https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14679&st=&pgnum=147&hilite=
What's the dimyon if your only issue is that R'Ahron didn't like it?



Thanks for that. So now we have a smach that worked when R'Ahron was alive and the de-facto leader in Lakewood. I guess it doesn't have to be said that times and circumstances have changed. ;)

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2881 on: May 15, 2023, 08:38:16 PM »


What's the dimyon if your only issue is that R'Ahron didn't like it?

Look at what he is responding to.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2882 on: May 15, 2023, 08:56:44 PM »

Look at what he is responding to.
Sorry, I was looking at the end of the first Teshuva, and didn't notice the second one, which is what he was probably referring to.

It's a Chidush to say that the only reason to ensure there are Eiruvin is for convenience and need, and today there is no major need, when the reason given is usually because of lhasir Michshol which would generally be understood to prevent accidental carrying.

By the way, I came across a nice video of Chassidim carrying their taleisim in Krakow (or Warsaw, don't remember which one), a few years ago. I have to find it.

Offline imayid2

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2883 on: May 15, 2023, 09:03:24 PM »
It's a Chidush to say that the only reason to ensure there are Eiruvin is for convenience and need, and today there is no major need, when the reason given is usually because of lhasir Michshol which would generally be understood to prevent accidental carrying.
He explains why it isn’t a factor in his opinion.

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2884 on: May 15, 2023, 09:40:35 PM »
He explains why it isn’t a factor in his opinion.
I saw that, but it's still a chidush.

In other news, and huge lhavdil (and this really does show the difference between night and day):

https://www.nj.com/education/2023/05/in-lengthy-case-on-lakewood-schools-nj-education-chief-requests-another-report.html

How in the world does she get away with such a sham?

Offline elazarb

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2885 on: May 15, 2023, 10:05:58 PM »
I once saw a Satmar chassid carrying in Lakewood, so I went over to him and told him that R' Aharon halt nisht fun machen eiruvin in Lakewood. He told me he follows R Zalman Leib.
(not a true story... but it probably could've happened)

Offline EliJelly

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2886 on: May 16, 2023, 12:55:01 AM »
By the way, I came across a nice video of Chassidim carrying their taleisim in Krakow (or Warsaw, don't remember which one), a few years ago. I have to find it.

Maybe it was on Yom Tov

What's the dimyon if your only issue is that R'Ahron didn't like it?Thanks for that. So now we have a smach that worked when R'Ahron was alive and the de-facto leader in Lakewood. I guess it doesn't have to be said that times and circumstances have changed. ;)

I don't agree with this notion at all. Chassidim are the newcomers in Lakewood, they benefited from a place that was established before them, show respect and follow the minhag hamukom implemented by the one who hustled to build it all up. (obviously easy to say that when I'm not living there myself :) )
« Last Edit: May 16, 2023, 12:59:11 AM by EliJelly »

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2887 on: May 16, 2023, 06:35:08 AM »
Maybe it was on Yom Tov

I don't agree with this notion at all. Chassidim are the newcomers in Lakewood, they benefited from a place that was established before them, show respect and follow the minhag hamukom implemented by the one who hustled to build it all up. (obviously easy to say that when I'm not living there myself :) )
Iirc, there was a date when the video was filmed which was Shabbos.

Re the second, feelings vs Halacha again? ;)

Hard to say minhag hamakom applies to anywhere today especially in a place like Lakewood with dozens of separate kehillos and with a city that has almost no sheychis to the town it was 50 years ago.

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2888 on: May 16, 2023, 08:16:39 AM »
It is very common in Lakewood that people walk past the limits of an eruv without realizing it. They assume that it is all one contiguous eruv where it really is not. This likely happens tens of times on any given shabbos in various parts of Lakewood. I saw it on my block right when I moved in before our eruv was complete.
The central court shul eiruv used to be disconnected from the surrounding eirivin, someone told me (can’t verify) that they’ve recently connected it due to a מעשה שהיה as per a sign hanging there. I assume that mean one michshal too many…

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2889 on: May 16, 2023, 08:48:21 AM »
The central court shul eiruv used to be disconnected from the surrounding eirivin, someone told me (can’t verify) that they’ve recently connected it due to a מעשה שהיה as per a sign hanging there. I assume that mean one michshal too many…
I can verify other than the maase
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2890 on: May 16, 2023, 08:52:37 AM »
Iirc, there was a date when the video was filmed which was Shabbos.

Re the second, feelings vs Halacha again? ;)

Hard to say minhag hamakom applies to anywhere today especially in a place like Lakewood with dozens of separate kehillos and with a city that has almost no sheychis to the town it was 50 years ago.
The sign  itself, while you may not agree with them, it's very much about Halacha.

Just the opposite. There is very good reason to say minhag hamakom about these things. This is not whether to say ברוך שאמר before or after הודו.

Bottom line is R Ahaon held very firmly that Rt 9 is a reshus harabim d'orayso and wrote tshuvos about it. Even the SOns of Israel eruv left out Rt 9 because of that. With all of the disparate kehillos in Lakewood none crossed this line.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2023, 09:07:22 AM by aygart »
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2891 on: May 16, 2023, 09:34:49 AM »
The sign  itself, while you may not agree with them, it's very much about Halacha.

Just the opposite. There is very good reason to say minhag hamakom about these things. This is not whether to say ברוך שאמר before or after הודו.

Bottom line is R Ahaon held very firmly that Rt 9 is a reshus harabim d'orayso and wrote tshuvos about it. Even the SOns of Israel eruv left out Rt 9 because of that. With all of the disparate kehillos in Lakewood none crossed this line.
The sign doesn't even write anything about Minhag Hamakom and how it would apply here. Btw, did R'Ahron write about the 9 south of the lake?

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2892 on: May 16, 2023, 09:37:42 AM »
The sign doesn't even write anything about Minhag Hamakom and how it would apply here. Btw, did R'Ahron write about the 9 south of the lake?
Correct they did not.

According to what he wrote there should be know difference
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2893 on: May 16, 2023, 09:43:27 AM »
Correct they did not.

According to what he wrote there should be know difference
Ok, thanks. Will have to look it up, but really it doesn't really matter to me besides my curiosity. I'm not the one deciding to make or not to make an Eiruv.

Offline LNS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2894 on: May 17, 2023, 11:26:41 AM »
I once saw a Satmar chassid carrying in Lakewood, so I went over to him and told him that R' Aharon halt nisht fun machen eiruvin in Lakewood. He told me he follows R Zalman Leib.
(not a true story... but it probably could've happened)
-1

Offline LNS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2895 on: May 17, 2023, 11:28:35 AM »
The sign doesn't even write anything about Minhag Hamakom and how it would apply here. Btw, did R'Ahron write about the 9 south of the lake?

there is no eiruv over the 9 south of the lake

i think with many newcomers there might have been a lot of confusion in the very beginning but has long been addressed and taken care of


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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2896 on: May 17, 2023, 01:09:09 PM »
there is no eiruv over the 9 south of the lake

i think with many newcomers there might have been a lot of confusion in the very beginning but has long been addressed and taken care of
Read my question again.

Offline LNS

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2897 on: May 17, 2023, 02:05:27 PM »
Read my question again.

sorry shouldn't have quoted you
just wanted to add that in since this is something i witnessed first hand

Offline dm123

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2898 on: May 17, 2023, 02:30:22 PM »
the one who hustled to build it all up.

Wait, which R' Aron Kotler are we talking about?  :)

Offline EliJelly

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #2899 on: May 17, 2023, 03:41:16 PM »
Wait, which R' Aron Kotler are we talking about?  :)

The one who built the מקום תורה, not the metropolis :)