The Future of Lakewood

[TimT]

Hard to say minhag hamakom applies to anywhere today especially in a place like Lakewood with dozens of separate kehillos and with a city that has almost no sheychis to the town it was 50 years ago.

And yet satmar in KY expects everyone in the surrounding neighborhoods to follow their rules.

[Moshe123]

And yet satmar in KY expects everyone in the surrounding neighborhoods to follow their rules.

Bh you don't hold their shitos on other things as well.

[imayid2]

The sign doesn't even write anything about Minhag Hamakom and how it would apply here.

The sign is entertaining and clownish. A city wide eiruv like some have been pushing for would be a Halachik disaster irrespective of the whole RAK and “minhag” business. This over the top rhetoric undermines the real issues.

[JMHO]

The sign is entertaining and clownish. A city wide eiruv like some have been pushing for would be a Halachik disaster irrespective of the whole RAK and “minhag” business. This over the top rhetoric undermines the real issues.

What are the 'real issues'?

[dm123]

The sign is entertaining and clownish. A city wide eiruv like some have been pushing for would be a Halachik disaster irrespective of the whole RAK and “minhag” business. This over the top rhetoric undermines the real issues.

Lakewood has more or different issues than other large cities? (excluding, as you seem to, the kpeida of minhag hamakom and RAK)

[aygart]

The sign is entertaining and clownish. A city wide eiruv like some have been pushing for would be a Halachik disaster irrespective of the whole RAK and “minhag” business. This over the top rhetoric undermines the real issues.

The patchwork of mini eruvin has its own set of issues including people not knowing boundaries and various eruvei chatzeiros (and potentially bracha livatala) issues

[imayid2]

What are the 'real issues'?

קרפף to name one.

Some segments of כלל ישראל still keep that rule…

[imayid2]

The patchwork of mini eruvin has its own set of issues including people not knowing boundaries and various eruvei chatzeiros (and potentially bracha livatala) issues

There needs to be much more transparency and information dissemination about where euruvin begin and end all over town, that’s for sure. Unfortunately the anti “big eiruvin” faction feed that specific issue. But having a full city wide eiruv isn’t doable, even those that don’t have the anti big eiruv” shita agree to that.

[yelped]

קרפף to name one.

Some segments of כלל ישראל still keep that rule…

That's not something that  can be termed "would be a Halachik disaster".

There are many that are meikel in instances that would apply to Lakewood, and that was done in pretty much every big city in Europe.

See some very interesting sources here: https://eruvinitiative.org/the-curious-case-of-the-karpef/

[liosac]

There needs to be much more transparency and information dissemination about where euruvin begin and end all over town, that’s for sure. Unfortunately the anti “big eiruvin” faction feed that specific issue. But having a full city wide eiruv isn’t doable, even those that don’t have the anti big eiruv” shita agree to that.

They do it in numerous other large cities where there are karfefs but aren’t shishim ribbui. Why would Lakewood not be doable?

[JMHO]

There needs to be much more transparency and information dissemination about where euruvin begin and end all over town, that’s for sure.

Who should research, collect and disseminate this information? Shouldn't each block/neighborhood have their own situation and then it's the responsibility of a new resident or guest to find out where the Eruv is?

[aygart]

Who should research, collect and disseminate this information? Shouldn't each block/neighborhood have their own situation and then it's the responsibility of a new resident or guest to find out where the Eruv is?

It was once attempted but didn't end well.

A person walking for ten minutes from his house can conceivably walk through 6 or 7 eruvin which may or may not have properly made their eruvei chtzeiros blend them.

[JMHO]

It was once attempted but didn't end well.

By who? Is there a community organization or group that researches and disseminates this information?

[imayid2]

That's not something that  can be termed "would be a Halachik disaster".

There are many that are meikel in instances that would apply to Lakewood, and that was done in pretty much every big city in Europe.

See some very interesting sources here: https://eruvinitiative.org/the-curious-case-of-the-karpef/

The דבר שמואל is a massive kula, which is rejected by many achronim. The MB and Chazon Ish say not to rely on it. Cities in Europe that did rely on it had more pressing needs for an Eiruv as R Moshe explains.
What’s more is that Rav Moshe maintained that the דבר שמואל isn’t applicable to modern day cities, Rav Elyashiv as well.
Small wonder why for mainstream poskim it’s a non starter.

[imayid2]

They do it in numerous other large cities where there are karfefs but aren’t shishim ribbui. Why would Lakewood not be doable?

My guess is that urban cities likely have less karfefs than a city like Lakewood. To box out all the karfefs here would be a massive undertaking.

[imayid2]

it's the responsibility of a new resident or guest to find out where the Eruv is

Easier said than done. Many times it’s difficult and frustrating to find out where it is and who maintains it.
There ought to be a website with all the information. But the jihadists would go nuts.

[JMHO]

Easier said than done. Many times it’s difficult and frustrating to find out where it is and who maintains it.
There ought to be a website with all the information. But the jihadists would go nuts.

Who should research, collect and disseminate this information? Are you offering to create this website? It sounds like a great idea L'toeles Hatzibur!

[yelped]

The דבר שמואל is a massive kula, which is rejected by many achronim. The MB and Chazon Ish say not to rely on it. Cities in Europe that did rely on it had more pressing needs for an Eiruv as R Moshe explains.
What’s more is that Rav Moshe maintained that the דבר שמואל isn’t applicable to modern day cities, Rav Elyashiv as well.
Small wonder why for mainstream poskim it’s a non starter.

This reminds me of the Hakdama of the Darchei Teshuva.

In any case, because the MB and Chazon Ish say not to rely on it doesn't mean that it has massive Halachic issues. There are way too many practicing Rabanim and gedoilim who used this Kula in practice. If you want to be machmir, be my guest, or figure out another way around it.

[imayid2]

Who should research, collect and disseminate this information? Are you offering to create this website? It sounds like a great idea L'toeles Hatzibur!

It was once attempted but didn't end well.

[imayid2]

In any case, because the MB and Chazon Ish say not to rely on it doesn't mean that it has massive Halachic issues. There are way too many practicing Rabanim and gedoilim who used this Kula in practice. If you want to be machmir, be my guest, or figure out another way around it.

Not sure why you’re ignoring Rav Moshe here.
Either way for mainstream poskim in the non chassidesh communities here it is indeed a big issue, one of the many pitfalls of a citywide eiruv. They would not want their communities put in a situation where there would be widespread michshal of people thinking there is a kosher eiruv when in their opinion, indeed according to the pashtus ההלכה, there is not. Not sure why you think they aren’t entitled to their opinion on this.