Author Topic: The Future of Lakewood  (Read 538487 times)

Offline chevron

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3160 on: June 26, 2023, 02:31:48 PM »
He probably also talked in shul

Oy!

Online TimT

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3161 on: June 26, 2023, 03:34:16 PM »
It's not the mods' job to police our LH
Is this the halacha ?

Offline JMHO

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3162 on: June 26, 2023, 03:36:33 PM »
The guy wants to do teshuva after scamming hundreds of women ? After breaking his wife's heart, kids? Family? Community ? מחלל שם שמים ברבים what did he think was going to happen? Once or twice I get it but for years? 
Ok...

Offline Fish Tank

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3163 on: June 26, 2023, 03:42:06 PM »
And people knew so they are enablers
Source ?

Offline Lurker

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3164 on: June 26, 2023, 03:45:19 PM »
Is this the halacha ?

Hichos DDF, Chetek 2, Siman 3.4: Dan is a rabbi, but he is not your rabbi. AYLOR is chok v'lo yaavor.
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Offline Euclid

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The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3165 on: June 26, 2023, 04:01:50 PM »
Source ?
There were very few people (if any) who were aware that he was currently doing it. Most people assumed that once he got married he settled down

Offline chevron

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3166 on: June 26, 2023, 04:04:19 PM »

Offline chevron

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3167 on: June 26, 2023, 04:05:12 PM »
Lakewood guy wrote seforim (think he headed a kollel at one point), apparently led double life for years dating hundreds of non Jewish girls in NYC and scamming them with assumed identity. He put out a lot of money and effort to hide the search results over the years but Vanity Fair is coming out with an expose.

Says hundreds

Offline avromie7

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3168 on: June 26, 2023, 04:28:45 PM »
You know what goes on in everyone's bedroom? It's not your job. You have Daas Torah, and it's their job to tell you which sforim are proper or improper to have on your shelf. You knowing the details of an individual's personal struggles and discussing it on a public forum has absolutely no toeles, other than satisfying your own perverse taavos.

*"You" is not personal, but general, and the taava is different for everyone, whether it's living vicariously, feeling superior, being in the know, or whatever your personal excuse is for needing to know and discuss this story.
I don't know anyone who asks a shayla every time they pick up a sefer.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Online Yehuda57

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3169 on: June 26, 2023, 04:47:15 PM »
Says hundreds

Could say millions, that still wouldn't mean anyone in the frum community had any knowledge of it. But let's be honest, the details of the story (which I don't know) don't really make a difference, other than deciding which axe to grind.

Anyone who is going to extrapolate an individual's misdeeds to an entire community already thought that of the community before they heard of that individual.



Offline JMHO

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3170 on: June 26, 2023, 04:52:09 PM »
I don't know anyone who asks a shayla every time they pick up a sefer.
There are many who are Makpid not to open ANY Sefer to avoid all Sheilos!

Offline Sam Finkelstein

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3171 on: June 26, 2023, 04:53:30 PM »
There are many who are Makpid not to open ANY Sefer to avoid all Sheilos!
Where is the like button?
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Offline joe1234

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3172 on: June 26, 2023, 04:54:40 PM »
There are many who are Makpid not to open ANY Sefer to avoid all Sheilos!
Lo plug because of nittel nacht…

Offline hcn0132

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3173 on: June 26, 2023, 05:05:04 PM »
PSA: If you google his real name, none of the image results are him.

Not sure what your googling but his image is deff there

Offline Euclid

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The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3174 on: June 26, 2023, 05:07:17 PM »
Not sure what your googling but his image is deff there
When googling his real name, the picture of the guy with brown hair isn't him

Offline liosac

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3175 on: June 26, 2023, 05:12:26 PM »
Talking in the theoretical as opposed to the case at hand, if someone passing himself off as a talmid chacham and צדיק would be living a double life, passing himself off for years to non Jews as a Roman Catholic, being mizaneh with hundreds of non Jews בשאט נפש, mechalel shabbos, treif restaurants etc. and if theoretically at some point it became well known, at some point wouldn’t it rise beyond the level of בעל עבירה and be מן החנפים and אינו עושה מעשה עמך so that it would be מותר to speak about and denigrate that person even if we were to assume that there is no תועלת (other than מפרסמין החנפין)? I know the ח״ח כלל ד׳ in באר מים חיים ל״ב and also in כלל ז וי׳ touches on this. Perhaps someone well versed in these halachos can comment. Again talking in the theoretical.
From looking into some of the sources the inyan is not so clear, but it would appear that if one is known to be repeatedly engaged in an issur that is well known such as arayos it is mutar to speak lashon hara regarding those aveiros though not regarding other areas of his life that do not involve aveiros. However, the lashon hara must be litoeles, which can include dissuading others from following his path as well as shaming him so he is motivated to do teshuva. See Chelkas Binyamin in כלל ד who is puzzled as to why the heter is limited as opposed to a מומר.

There is a seperate din of exposing one who pretends to be a צדיק but engages in aveiros so that others should not learn from him which may or may not apply in a case such as this. If indeed one was living a complete lifestyle that involved wanton arayos, chilul shabbos, treif, and claiming to be a catholic it is not clear if he is still called a מומר לתיאבן who is still considered עמיתך or if he is no longer considered עמיתך in which case it would be מותר even without toeles though not necessarily advisable.

Offline joe1234

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3176 on: June 26, 2023, 05:22:44 PM »
From looking into some of the sources the inyan is not so clear, but it would appear that if one is known to be repeatedly engaged in an issur that is well known such as arayos it is mutar to speak lashon hara regarding those aveiros though not regarding other areas of his life that do not involve aveiros. However, the lashon hara must be litoeles, which can include dissuading others from following his path as well as shaming him so he is motivated to do teshuva. See Chelkas Binyamin in כלל ד who is puzzled as to why the heter is limited as opposed to a מומר.

There is a seperate din of exposing one who pretends to be a צדיק but engages in aveiros so that others should not learn from him which may or may not apply in a case such as this. If indeed one was living a complete lifestyle that involved wanton arayos, chilul shabbos, treif, and claiming to be a catholic it is not clear if he is still called a מומר לתיאבן who is still considered עמיתך or if he is no longer considered עמיתך in which case it would be מותר even without toeles though not necessarily advisable.
he only claimed to be catholic in order to get these girls... that's still leteiavon.

Offline Lurker

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3177 on: June 26, 2023, 05:25:51 PM »
I don't know anyone who asks a shayla every time they pick up a sefer.

No, but I know plenty of rabbis who let people know when a sefer is inappropriate for people to use.
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Offline imayid2

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3178 on: June 26, 2023, 05:49:29 PM »
From looking into some of the sources the inyan is not so clear, but it would appear that if one is known to be repeatedly engaged in an issur that is well known such as arayos it is mutar to speak lashon hara regarding those aveiros though not regarding other areas of his life that do not involve aveiros. However, the lashon hara must be litoeles, which can include dissuading others from following his path as well as shaming him so he is motivated to do teshuva. See Chelkas Binyamin in כלל ד who is puzzled as to why the heter is limited as opposed to a מומר.

There is a seperate din of exposing one who pretends to be a צדיק but engages in aveiros so that others should not learn from him which may or may not apply in a case such as this. If indeed one was living a complete lifestyle that involved wanton arayos, chilul shabbos, treif, and claiming to be a catholic it is not clear if he is still called a מומר לתיאבן who is still considered עמיתך or if he is no longer considered עמיתך in which case it would be מותר even without toeles though not necessarily advisable.
It only needs to be לתועלת when he wasn’t פורק מעליו עול מלכות שמים לגמרי as the CC concludes. Would this qualify?
Also, the C’C is talking about the guy who’s literally breaking the news, not people discussing the details. Im not sure it’s the same.

Offline yomo

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Re: The Future of Lakewood
« Reply #3179 on: June 26, 2023, 06:47:56 PM »
It only needs to be לתועלת when he wasn’t פורק מעליו עול מלכות שמים לגמרי as the CC concludes. Would this qualify?
Also, the C’C is talking about the guy who’s literally breaking the news, not people discussing the details. Im not sure it’s the same.

Don't think it's fair to conclude פורק מעליו עול מלכות שמים לגמרי
By the fact that he tried keeping his frum wife/child and good name by going to great lengths to cover up and live the "double life" it's fair to say this was taavah based, probably fell and picked himself up and fell again, trying to change and falling again and reasonable to conclude Lebo Bashomyim