The Future of Lakewood

[cholent]

I don't, I heard about it from someone who was there. But Rav Yitzchok Sorotzkin in the above video talks a lot about it.

I guess I'm just a little skeptical that he supposedly has this endorsement and yet the only way we know about it is because he says so, or because his paid ads say so? If they do endorse him, why isn't there a written and signed statement, as there is for everything else under the sun?

[YitzyS]

I guess I'm just a little skeptical that he supposedly has this endorsement and yet the only way we know about it is because he says so, or because his paid ads say so? If they do endorse him, why isn't there a written and signed statement, as there is for everything else under the sun?

1. Listen to the video of Rav Yitzchok Sorotzkin. He asserts emphatically that the Moetzes unanimously endorsed him.

2. Just my thoughts, most "statements" from the Moetzes are released by Agudah, but Agudah as a non-profit can't officially endorse him so there is no typical statement. That is what I assume. But again, you will gain a lot of clarity about the whole endorsement from the video of Rav Yitzchok.

[dealfinder11]

I guess I'm just a little skeptical that he supposedly has this endorsement and yet the only way we know about it is because he says so, or because his paid ads say so? If they do endorse him, why isn't there a written and signed statement, as there is for everything else under the sun?

1. Listen to the video of Rav Yitzchok Sorotzkin. He asserts emphatically that the Moetzes unanimously endorsed him.

2. Just my thoughts, most "statements" from the Moetzes are released by Agudah, but Agudah as a non-profit can't officially endorse him so there is no typical statement. That is what I assume. But again, you will gain a lot of clarity about the whole endorsement from the video of Rav Yitzchok.

Never mind an endorsement - He is running at the request of the Moetzes. Please watch the video from R Yitzchok.

I shudder to think of the extent that these people will go to, causing these gedolim agmus nefesh.

[cholent]

Never mind an endorsement - He is running at the request of the Moetzes. Please watch the video from R Yitzchok.

I don't normally watch videos but I'll try to watch this one. But again, if this supposed strong push is only being communicated in a video and his paid ads, it doesn't sound all that strong to me. I'd love to actually read a statement that would tell me that they encouraged this or endorse voting for him and not just divrei Bracha for him, as some say it is

[dealfinder11]

I don't normally watch videos but I'll try to watch this one. But again, if this supposed strong push is only being communicated in a video and his paid ads, it doesn't sound all that strong to me. I'd love to actually read a statement that would tell me that they encouraged this or endorse voting for him and not just divrei Bracha for him, as some say it is

I'm confused. Are you doubting what Reb Yitzchok is stating?

[cholent]

I'm confused. Are you doubting what Reb Yitzchok is stating?

No. I did not yet watch the video. I'm doubting an advertising push that labels him as the gedolim's choice but doesn't actually provide any statement saying that. I posted my question before the video was posted and as I mentioned, I don't generally watch videos, I much prefer written material. If I find 15 minutes to watch this one...

[dealfinder11]

No. I did not yet watch the video. I'm doubting an advertising push that labels him as the gedolim's choice but doesn't actually provide any statement saying that. I posted my question before the video was posted and as I mentioned, I don't generally watch videos, I much prefer written material. If I find 15 minutes to watch this one...

Just watch the first two minutes.

[cholent]

Never mind an endorsement - He is running at the request of the Moetzes. Please watch the video from R Yitzchok.

I shudder to think of the extent that these people will go to, causing these gedolim agmus nefesh.

Watched and I will vote for him.

I resent your earlier comment, apparently directed at me, at "the lengths people will go to cause agmas nefesh to gedolim". It is not unreasonable to expect a statement like "the Moetzes backs Schnall" to be backed up by some actual proof - in fact, I would argue that it is unreasonable to expect people to believe it is true without any proof at all. Unfortunately the reality is that many people quote Rabbanim saying things they've never said.

(Also, I really can't go to any lengths at all, considering how long it takes to get anywhere in Lakewood. Photo below was taken on my drive to work yesterday)

[imayid2]

Watched and I will vote for him.

I resent your earlier comment, apparently directed at me, at "the lengths people will go to cause agmas nefesh to gedolim". It is not unreasonable to expect a statement like "the Moetzes backs Schnall" to be backed up by some actual proof - in fact, I would argue that it is unreasonable to expect people to believe it is true without any proof at all. Unfortunately the reality is that many people quote Rabbanim saying things they've never said.

(Also, I really can't go to any lengths at all, considering how long it takes to get anywhere in Lakewood. Photo below was taken on my drive to work yesterday)

I understood his comment as directed at the people Rav Sorotzkin was railing against.

[dealfinder11]

Watched and I will vote for him.

I resent your earlier comment, apparently directed at me, at "the lengths people will go to cause agmas nefesh to gedolim". It is not unreasonable to expect a statement like "the Moetzes backs Schnall" to be backed up by some actual proof - in fact, I would argue that it is unreasonable to expect people to believe it is true without any proof at all. Unfortunately the reality is that many people quote Rabbanim saying things they've never said.

(Also, I really can't go to any lengths at all, considering how long it takes to get anywhere in Lakewood. Photo below was taken on my drive to work yesterday)

I understood his comment as directed at the people Rav Sorotzkin was railing against.

Exactly. I'm sorry if you misunderstood my intent. As you mention " Unfortunately the reality is that many people quote Rabbanim saying things they've never said." And that is clearly what is happening here.

[JMHO]

This whole thing is clownish IMHO.

Forget the endorsements, robocalls, Askonim and Asifas, who is the alternative to AS?

Do y'all really need such hock & drama to decide who to vote for? Let's see if turnout can crack 40%!

[yuneeq]

I understood his comment as directed at the people Rav Sorotzkin was railing against.

I don't understand why Rav Sorotzkin was railing against anyone. I plan on voting for AS, but its not because I saw any endorsements from any rabbonim. In fact, I actually haven't seen a single endorsement until his video, unless you consider an ad with a rubber stamp an "endorsement". In light of that, is it really terrible to oppose AS?

If it's so important to the rabbonim, why wait until days before the election for one Rav to endorse AS? Why's it so difficult to simply come out and say so?

On a different point, after listening to a 15 minute speech (without fast playback options), I did not hear a single reason to vote for AS other than the fact that Rabbonim said to do so. For many, that is enough of a reason to vote for AS, but does the community not deserve to hear a single reason why they thought AS is an important candidate to vote for?

Are we too dumb to understand?
Is there something that needs to be hidden?
Are they afraid that someone may disagree?
Is it possible that they made their endorsements based on facts they were provided, but other experts may disagree with those facts?

[aygart]

I don't understand why Rav Sorotzkin was railing against anyone. I plan on voting for AS, but its not because I saw any endorsements from any rabbonim. In fact, I actually haven't seen a single endorsement until his video, unless you consider an ad with a rubber stamp an "endorsement". In light of that, is it really terrible to oppose AS?

I know that Rav Zimbal is not as a rubber stamp. He wrote his own separate letter and spoke about it last shabbos.

[iwlw2]

I know that Rav Zimbal is not as a rubber stamp. He wrote his own separate letter and spoke about it last shabbos.

To echo the above question though, did he provide any details or just say that is what "achdus" or listening to the gedolim requires? I read his separate letter and it was not much more than that. I am not saying that either of those reasons are not sufficient on their own, but do we really want to have imported Israeli-style politics and all that entails to the extent that municipal/state/federal elections become cases where blind fealty to Daas Torah is the way to get the masses to vote in a certain way instead of clearly explaining why it is in our best interests? It is an unfortunate reality that has been proved on many occasions (not necessarily in this case) that askanim had ulterior motives and were able to use their not inconsiderable money and power to get Rabbinim to support their campaigns which those Rabbonim themselves later regretted, sometimes even publicly. Do we want every election to be such an opportunity? With all the money and PR thrown at this campaign, I have yet to see much actual reasonable explanation for what and why they expect AS election to be the answer to all our woes, and frankly that is suspicious....

[JMHO]

I have yet to see much actual reasonable explanation for what and why they expect AS election to be the answer to all our woes, and frankly that is suspicious....

It's not the answer to all our woes, don't get too excited lol

It sounds like you've done your homework on this race, who would/did you vote for if you don't mind sharing?

[MoYS]

I spoke to many people about this election, honestly many had never voted before, and ones that did were for presidential elections. Fot them it is not a question of who to vote for but to get out and vote. Once they are there they will vote for AS just beacuse.

This whole thing is clownish IMHO.
Do y'all really need such hock & drama to decide who to vote for? Let's see if turnout can crack 40%!

I agree with you that they need to focus on turnout, but I think thats the point of the asifos etc. For the people that would anyways vote and want to know why AS the reasons given are kind of lacking.

[iwlw2]

It's not the answer to all our woes, don't get too excited lol

It sounds like you've done your homework on this race, who would/did you vote for if you don't mind sharing?

Honestly I am not sure. On the one hand I am completely baffled how any of this makes any sense and why they wouldn't have shared it with the public if it was something straightforward.
On the other hand, especially given the players here, there is a possibility of some political back room deals having been done which obviously can't be talked about publicly but may have been shared with the Gedolim involved.
The question boils down to how realistic that possibility is in light of the fact that even if Murphy himself made assurances in order to flip this seat, realistically at how much scale can it possibly have been done that it would actually have a significant effect. Meaning, for it to have a reverberating effect across Lakewood's population you would need to be talking about something in the 100 or hundreds of millions range, and how realistic is it that something like that which would be recognized as a special political favor to Lakewood would actually be able to slip by the rest of the State's politicians and powerful forces such as the teacher's unions and public-school advocates? I go back and forth on this..... Thus I am not sure.
And while I would love to boast of the level of Emunas Chachamim that would allow me to ignore any common sense and just do ככל אשר יורוך, knowing that there are certainly Rabbonim on the both sides (even if those opposing are not as public or loud due to the powerful forces on the other side) makes that argument somewhat moot for me.

[MoYS]

And while I would love to boast of the level of Emunas Chachamim that would allow me to ignore any common sense and just do ככל אשר יורוך, knowing that there are certainly Rabbonim on the both sides (even if those opposing are not as public or loud due to the powerful forces on the other side) makes that argument somewhat moot for me.

There are Rabbonim who came out against AS? I only saw dissent regarding the school board

[iwlw2]

There are Rabbonim who came out against AS? I only saw dissent regarding the school board

There was a published letter about the school board as the Adirei Hatorah/BMG/Vaad was not so strong about that anyway so not so much pushback to dissenting voices, the dissent to AS was much quieter by design. Also, want to stress, I don't know that anyone came out against AS personally, I think everyone would agree he is and was doing his best for the Klal in his previous position in Aguda as well as now, and I am sure he is a good guy personally. But if anyone believes that this is coming from him and not those running him (the advertisements about "Avi's tuition plan" as of this has anything to do with him prior to a couple of months ago are particularly laughable), there's nice real estate in Gaza I'd like to sell you.... The opposition is mainly predicated either on voting for a Democrat or aiva questions or something like that.

[MoYS]

But if anyone believes that this is coming from him and not those running him (the advertisements about "Avi's tuition plan" as of this has anything to do with him prior to a couple of months ago are particularly laughable), there's nice real estate in Gaza I'd like to sell you.... The opposition is mainly predicated either on voting for a Democrat or aiva questions or something like that.

It's funny you mention the fact its not by his design as a deterring factor. If you listen to the R Yitzchak Sorotzkin clip that is what they praise him for. Which IMO makes sense, that a frum candidate should run based on the urging of Gedolim, not that he wants to run and Rabbonim get dragged into it.