The Future of Lakewood

[Euclid]

This thread is nowhere near Lakewood right now.

To be fair, I guess it's harkening back to when it actually was an Ir Hatorah

[YitzyS]

This thread is nowhere near Lakewood right now.

This thread may have produced more spinoff threads than any other thread.

[aygart]

This thread may have produced more spinoff threads than any other thread.

And that my friends is the future of Lakewood.

[Kmusic22]

Maybe the thread name should be changed to “The Future of Lakewood, and it’s 5 towns” (Brick, Howell, Jackson, Manchester, Toms River.)

[dealmaster]

START RANT: Having a Secular Education System in Misivtah, without rigorous enforcement (such as in Philly) in my opinion is a non option. It just reinforces the rampant disregard of authority so prevalent now days in every society. As a side point, one of my closest friends is a MD. He received almost no Secular Education in elementary school and none at all in high school. But when he decided to apply to collage (for pre med requirements) he used Kahn Academy and learned all he had to know. In fact he ended up as an official college tutor for his classmates. My point is, a good solid training in learning Torah, is by far the best spring board for future success as it teaches critical thinking on a level 99% of the general population never get to. And with such a background it isn't hard to make up for a lack of education in an informal way. So even if your personal Hashkafa is not to bring up your children to sit and learn, and instead to have a career (Torah I'm Derech Eretz) they will be just fine with getting a typical Lakewood Misivtah type of high school education. PS I am in no way trying to Pasken the Shayla(in fact in my family almost as many members have advanced degrees as dont) just trying to say that the reality of today's world bears out the fact that the lack of Secular Education in Misivtah has very little bearing on career opportunities latter in life. END RANT

[sds1493]

START RANT: Having a Secular Education System in Misivtah, without rigorous enforcement (such as in Philly) in my opinion is a non option. It just reinforces the rampant disregard of authority so prevalent now days in every society. As a side point, one of my closest friends is a MD. He received almost no Secular Education in elementary school and none at all in high school. But when he decided to apply to collage (for pre med requirements) he used Kahn Academy and learned all he had to know. In fact he ended up as an official college tutor for his classmates. My point is, a good solid training in learning Torah, is by far the best spring board for future success as it teaches critical thinking on a level 99% of the general population never get to. And with such a background it isn't hard to make up for a lack of education in an informal way. So even if your personal Hashkafa is not to bring up your children to sit and learn, and instead to have a career (Torah I'm Derech Eretz) they will be just fine with getting a typical Lakewood Misivtah type of high school education. PS I am in no way trying to Pasken the Shayla(in fact in my family almost as many members have advanced degrees as dont) just trying to say that the reality of today's world bears out the fact that the lack of Secular Education in Misivtah has very little bearing on career opportunities latter in life. END RANT

To clarify, you're proving your thesus (lack of secular education has little bearing on career opportunities) based on a single data point (your MD friend).

[AsherO]

Can't remember the last time I saw the word "truth" used correctly online.

Pravda

[a1234]

To clarify, you're proving your thesus (lack of secular education has little bearing on career opportunities) based on a single data point (your MD friend).

All you have to do is look around, and you'll notice thousands of yeshiva educated students who didn't have a secular education, and now have great careers

[sds1493]

All you have to do is look around, and you'll notice thousands of yeshiva educated students who didn't have a secular education, and now have great careers

That may be true. However, one would have to compare it with the yeshiva educated students who don't have great careers (and compare it with those yeshivas which also offered decent secular studies).
I'm not sure what the results would be. But anecdotes ≠ data.

[TheAsh]

START RANT: Having a Secular Education System in Misivtah, without rigorous enforcement (such as in Philly) in my opinion is a non option. It just reinforces the rampant disregard of authority so prevalent now days in every society. As a side point, one of my closest friends is a MD. He received almost no Secular Education in elementary school and none at all in high school. But when he decided to apply to collage (for pre med requirements) he used Kahn Academy and learned all he had to know. In fact he ended up as an official college tutor for his classmates. My point is, a good solid training in learning Torah, is by far the best spring board for future success as it teaches critical thinking on a level 99% of the general population never get to. And with such a background it isn't hard to make up for a lack of education in an informal way. So even if your personal Hashkafa is not to bring up your children to sit and learn, and instead to have a career (Torah I'm Derech Eretz) they will be just fine with getting a typical Lakewood Misivtah type of high school education. PS I am in no way trying to Pasken the Shayla(in fact in my family almost as many members have advanced degrees as dont) just trying to say that the reality of today's world bears out the fact that the lack of Secular Education in Misivtah has very little bearing on career opportunities latter in life. END RANT

1) Perhaps an education would help with paragraph breaks.

2) The disregard of authority in mesivtas is a direct result of the mesivtos' education and attitudes. You can't create the problem and then say nah, we won't fix it!

3) The lack.of respect is a symptom not the disease. There is still a huge lack of respect that is reinforced. OOT yeshivos don't have this issue by and large.

[LMB]

where can I order a nice meat board to send someone in lkwd for purim with a universally accepted hechsher?

[Jeremiah]

where can I order a nice meat board to send someone in lkwd for purim with a universally accepted hechsher?

Next level. Under kcl

[yfr bachur]

START RANT: Having a Secular Education System in Misivtah, without rigorous enforcement (such as in Philly) in my opinion is a non option. It just reinforces the rampant disregard of authority so prevalent now days in every society.

If you stopped there I don't think anyone would argue with you.

As a side point, one of my closest friends is a MD. He received almost no Secular Education in elementary school and none at all in high school. But when he decided to apply to collage (for pre med requirements) he used Kahn Academy and learned all he had to know. In fact he ended up as an official college tutor for his classmates. My point is, a good solid training in learning Torah, is by far the best spring board for future success as it teaches critical thinking on a level 99% of the general population never get to. And with such a background it isn't hard to make up for a lack of education in an informal way.

Its a great story, but doesn't prove anything.
The upper decile or quartile of the Mesivta learning population are possibly smart enough that they can can catch up with out to much trouble. Even a bunch of stories about the guy who learned in kollel for X amount of years and then went straight to law school don't prove ANYTHING about the rest of the population, especialy those of below median metal aptitude or study habits. They will have a very difficult or even impossible task catching up.
There are plenty of guys out looking for work soon after BM who are at that point bec of mental ability and or zitzfleish not parnassa

[EliJelly]

The upper decile or quartile of the Mesivta learning population are possibly smart enough that they can can catch up with out to much trouble. Even a bunch of stories about the guy who learned in kollel for X amount of years and then went straight to law school don't prove ANYTHING about the rest of the population, especialy those of below median metal aptitude or study habits. They will have a very difficult or even impossible task catching up

So schools without robust secular education would have prevented all the the dumb professors and professionals from reaching their careers, then we should implement that all over.

[Euclid]

So schools without robust secular education would have prevented all the the dumb professors and professionals from reaching their careers, then we should implement that all over.

How would they make a parnassa? I'm confused

[Euclid]

This myth that somehow going to yeshiva and learning gemara magically makes you smarter and more intelligent than someone that didn't needs to be debunked.

Yes, if you put the work in you can develop critical thinking skills which can be transferable to the outside, professional world. But 1) it's not magic - it's not going to make you smarter than someone similar to you intellectually who didn't go to yeshiva, 2) it's can only give you the skills up to a point.

[jye]

[yelped]

Really? About time there was an actual budget store in Lakewood. Should have been here 25 years ago.

[Ver hut gazugt]

This myth that somehow going to yeshiva and learning gemara magically makes you smarter and more intelligent than someone that didn't needs to be debunked.

Yes, if you put the work in you can develop critical thinking skills which can be transferable to the outside, professional world. But 1) it's not magic - it's not going to make you smarter than someone similar to you intellectually who didn't go to yeshiva, 2) it's can only give you the skills up to a point.

yet you brought not evidence to debunk it.

[Something Fishy]

This thread may have produced more spinoff threads than any other thread.

This thread is the giant tzifardeah of DDF