Parsonage

[moko]

My accountant told me that it is not worth opting out, being that you will not be eligible for any social security benefits including unemployment etc. (do not recall if we discussed Medicaid, being that my salary makes me ineligible, so it was not so pertinent for me)

I don't believe clergy are eligible for unemployment either way.

1. Definition. A "non-profit organization" shall mean any corporation, unincorporated association, community chest, fund, or foundation organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, literary or educational purposes, no part of the net earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual.

Subd. 1 as amended by L. 1971, ch. 1027, effective January 1, 1972.

(2) Exclusions. In addition to services not included pursuant to the provisions of section five hundred eleven, the term "employment" does not include services rendered for a non-profit organization by

(a) a duly ordained, commissioned, or licensed minister of a church in the exercise of his ministry, or by a member of a religious order in the exercise of duties required by such order,
(b) a lay member elected or appointed to an office within the discipline of a bona fide church and engaged in religious functions;
(c) a person employed at a place of religious worship as a caretaker or for the performance of duties of a religious nature, or both, unless voluntary election has been made pursuant to the provisions of section five hundred sixty-one of this article;

https://labor.ny.gov/ui/dande/title5.shtm

[ExGingi]

Replacement for guaranteed pension would be a DIA.

Or an annuity with a lifetime income rider,

I specifically didn’t mention any specific kind of annuity, as there are several approaches that could work. My point was that while all annuities have certain guarantees, not all can guarantee a lifetime stream of income.

[Yehuda25]

My accountant told me that it is not worth opting out, being that you will not be eligible for any social security benefits including unemployment etc. (do not recall if we discussed Medicaid, being that my salary makes me ineligible, so it was not so pertinent for me)

well, if you are employed elsewhere as well, or self employed, you are already paying in elsewhere.

[Yehuda25]

I don't know your age, but I would venture to say that replacing social security benefits (disability and retirement) using private market options (individual non-cancellable disability insurance, Whole Life insurance, and a private guaranteed pension) might cost less than 15.3% of income. Though I am not sure what might be done to replace Medicare (not medicaid).

That being said, I once heard from R' Chaim Sholom Deutsch from Yerushalaim, that for quite a few years he refused to be a member of "Kupat Cholim". At his wife's urging, he once asked the Rebbe about it during a yechidus. The Rebbe's response was that he should join משום אל תפרוש מן הציבור.

Interesting.

[Yehuda25]

Ouch... This case seems kinda solid...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2017/10/07/clergy-housing-tax-break-ruled-unconstitutional-again/amp/

[moko]

Ouch... This case seems kinda solid...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2017/10/07/clergy-housing-tax-break-ruled-unconstitutional-again/amp/

I fully agree with her ruling even though such a ruling would be brutal to me. Keep in mind, it's not just a tax savings but non-taxable income which in many (all?) states is not counted as income for government benefits

[Dawie]

Ouch... This case seems kinda solid...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2017/10/07/clergy-housing-tax-break-ruled-unconstitutional-again/amp/

where have you been this was a year ago
Did the 7th Circuit rule on the appeal?

[Yehuda25]

where have you been this was a year ago
Did the 7th Circuit rule on the appeal?

no no, this is way worse. Now they have standing

[Dawie]

no no, this is way worse. Now they have standing

that article is from 10/7/17
4 years ago they rule there was no standing
last year they created standing and sued again
and yes it is way worse
if parsonage goes expect tuition to rise too

[Sport]

that article is from 10/7/17
4 years ago they rule there was no standing
last year they created standing and sued again
and yes it is way worse
if parsonage goes expect tuition to rise too

+1 The schools will take a double hit- they'll need to raise sallaries and pay half fica on portion that used to be parsonage.

[Yehuda25]

that article is from 10/7/17
4 years ago they rule there was no standing
last year they created standing and sued again
and yes it is way worse
if parsonage goes expect tuition to rise too

oops, you are right. Popped up in my feed today and thought I saw October 2018.

[Yehuda25]

+1 The schools will take a double hit- they'll need to raise sallaries and pay half fica on portion that used to be parsonage.

yup, issue is many cant really raise tuition... as its so high already.

The real answer is for the exemption of the school tax if not using or vouchers for private school.

[Yammer]

I fully agree with her ruling even though such a ruling would be brutal to me. Keep in mind, it's not just a tax savings but non-taxable income which in many (all?) states is not counted as income for government benefits

It's definitely counted as income for social services in my area, but
1. ppl aren't aware of it
2. Since it's not considered income for the IRS it's not showing up on any documentation for Social services

[yelped]

It's counted for Social Services, but not for Health Insurance since Obamacare was passed.

[moko]

It's counted for Social Services, but not for Health Insurance since Obamacare was passed.

which in turn will automatically qualify those who are approved for Medicaid, for WIC as well.

[ExGingi]

It's counted for Social Services, but not for Health Insurance since Obamacare was passed.

I can't talk about qualifying for Social Services, as I don't know what the laws/regulations say (if at all they are clear). My guess is that no-one really knows, and people just make things up.

As far as Medicaid, since Obamacare became the law of the land, the only thing that matters is MAGI (modified AGI, which for most people is the same as AGI). As I've written elsewhere, you can have assets worth billions, and millions in cash flow, as long as your MAGI is within the guidelines, you legally qualify for Medicaid.

[whYME]

the only thing that matters is MAGI (modified AGI, which for most people is the same as AGI). As I've written elsewhere, you can have assets worth billions, and millions in cash flow, as long as your MAGI is within the guidelines, you legally qualify for Medicaid.

does parsonage affect (M)AGI?

[ExGingi]

does parsonage affect (M)AGI?

No. Not under the current law of the land. It is subject to Self-employment tax, but isn't taxable income, so it's not part of (M)AGI.

[whYME]

No. Not under the current law of the land. It is subject to Self-employment tax, but isn't taxable income, so it's not part of (M)AGI.

thanks

[hocker18]

No. Not under the current law of the land. It is subject to Self-employment tax, but isn't taxable income, so it's not part of (M)AGI.

See here for good article explaining what income counts and what doesn’t for MAGI -

http://www.healthreformbeyondthebasics.org/key-facts-income-definitions-for-marketplace-and-medicaid-coverage/