The Official Complain Thread Against The Local Heimishe Jewish Owned Stores

[David Smith]

Remember this thread?

[ilherman]

complains in a general way, yes. But to call a out a specific store is wrong IMO.

If it's Letoeles? Why?

I'll give you a real example that happened to my parents:

If a store assures you that you were purchasing a refrigerator with a shabbos mode ships you one that does not (some serial numbers of that model have one while others don't), and refuses to take it back when you realize this due to being a mere "middleman,"  you don't think that store should be called out specifically so other potential buyers are forewarned?

 

Exactly.

[yitzyul]

Reviewing a Heimishe company is 100% Loshen Hara, the only way it won't be LH is if the particular business is actually stealing.

Bad customer service experience is totally relative.

For example, if I owned a restaurant , and had a couple of waiters,  now you have a nasty customer, (admit, there are plenty of those) demanding a refund because the steak he ordered came out not the way he wanted, now this guy gets all nasty at the waiter which triggers the waiter ( which is only one out of a few) to respond a bit unprofessionally.

Now this guy thinks he'll get even with the Restaurant (Ltoeles hatziber) and post about it in this thread.

Who is he hurting, the non Jewish waiter, or the Jewish owned Restaurant?

So If I go to a restaurant that the service was lousy, from waiter to bus boy, food wasn't fresh etc, Im not allowed to post on Yelp? I review Yelp before I choose which store to go to and people will do the same with my review.
THat is part of how competition works. What benefit does a store have do spend extra on dedicated staff if they can just hire cheap labor and not care about customer service??

[Hershelsdeals]

So If I go to a restaurant that the service was lousy, from waiter to bus boy, food wasn't fresh etc, Im not allowed to post on Yelp? I review Yelp before I choose which store to go to and people will do the same with my review.
THat is part of how competition works. What benefit does a store have do spend extra on dedicated staff if they can just hire cheap labor and not care about customer service??

I'm not YLOR

[ilherman]

I'm not YLOR

Reviewing a Heimishe company is 100% Loshen Hara, the only way it won't be LH is if the particular business is actually stealing.

Certainly you are. 

[zale]

Two points here:

1. I have been on both ends of this. Most Frum people that open a store are excited to do business and be nice to customers. Every business owner WANTS to be nice. The problem is that there is an entitlement mentality among Frum customers.

Apparently, Frum elementary schools never teach kids basic mentchlichkeit. Buying stuff, opening and destroying the package, using the item, and then deciding that you have "buyers remorse" doesn't entitle you to free returns. Items that break due to mistreatment are not the responsibility of the store. When these kinds of customers come back over and over and over, you start to develop an intolerance and impose firm rules and regulations to protect your business. Unfortunately these rules are universal and apply to the well-intentioned customers as well.
 
2. Yelp damages businesses. Happy customers almost NEVER leave reviews. They can't be bothered. The customers leaving reviews are the angry, vengeful customers who want to destroy the business. Starting this thread to talk exclusively about negative experiences has that exact same effect.

[Hershelsdeals]

Two points here:

1. I have been on both ends of this. Most Frum people that open a store are excited to do business and be nice to customers. Every business owner WANTS to be nice. The problem is that there is an entitlement mentality among Frum customers.

Apparently, Frum elementary schools never teach kids basic mentchlichkeit. Buying stuff, opening and destroying the package, using the item, and then deciding that you have "buyers remorse" doesn't entitle you to free returns. Items that break due to mistreatment are not the responsibility of the store. When these kinds of customers come back over and over and over, you start to develop an intolerance and impose firm rules and regulations to protect your business. Unfortunately these rules are universal and apply to the well-intentioned customers as well.
 
2. Yelp damages businesses. Happy customers almost NEVER leave reviews. They can't be bothered. The customers leaving reviews are the angry, vengeful customers who want to destroy the business. Starting this thread to talk exclusively about negative experiences has that exact same effect.

Exactly

[yuneeq]

2. Yelp damages businesses. Happy customers almost NEVER leave reviews. They can't be bothered. The customers leaving reviews are the angry, vengeful customers who want to destroy the business. Starting this thread to talk exclusively about negative experiences has that exact same effect.

So I'm guessing if I browse Yelp I will not find any businesses rated higher than 2-3 stars?

And in case you're so worried about negative reviews, there's a reason why negative reviews can have more positive impact than positive reviews.
http://unbounce.com/conversion-rate-optimization/customer-reviews-conversion-rates/

80% of people read negative reviews before purchasing a product online.
Guess what happens: if the product isn't that bad or the experience can be written off as a one-time issue, it validates the customers decision to purchase the product. Same can be said about Yelp reviews IME.

[David Smith]

So I'm guessing if I browse Yelp I will not find any businesses rated higher than 2-3 stars?

Yelp isn't only Jewish reviewers.

[EJB]

Two points here:

1. I have been on both ends of this. Most Frum people that open a store are excited to do business and be nice to customers. Every business owner WANTS to be nice. The problem is that there is an entitlement mentality among Frum customers.

Apparently, Frum elementary schools never teach kids basic mentchlichkeit. Buying stuff, opening and destroying the package, using the item, and then deciding that you have "buyers remorse" doesn't entitle you to free returns. Items that break due to mistreatment are not the responsibility of the store. When these kinds of customers come back over and over and over, you start to develop an intolerance and impose firm rules and regulations to protect your business. Unfortunately these rules are universal and apply to the well-intentioned customers as well.
 
2. Yelp damages businesses. Happy customers almost NEVER leave reviews. They can't be bothered. The customers leaving reviews are the angry, vengeful customers who want to destroy the business. Starting this thread to talk exclusively about negative experiences has that exact same effect.

So you're not arguing that it is de facto wrong to review a Jewish store. Just that most Jews, in particular, are biased and present a negative account. That's more fair, but not a reason to withhold from sharing your experiences if you make sure to be careful.

[aygart]

Apparently, Frum elementary schools never teach kids basic mentchlichkeit.

Not sure where schools come into the picture here. I always thought schools were to teach information and skills while mentchlichkeit was supposed to come from the home. If they learn it at home the school is not needed if they don't the school will not help.

[ilherman]

Exactly

Exactly what? Were you the one who were busy about Lashan Hara? Now you're agreeing with someone who is saying Lashan Hara on an entire community? I'm confused. Never mind that it's not even true, I have close relatives with store fronts who could easily get away with bad customer service with this lousy excuses but they don't and it's just not true. There are always people who are not Mentchlich but most people are and if something Jews are more Mentchlich and care about others. I know that when it comes to argue about a price etc Jews will be the first to make sure they get the absolute best deal but to say that

Apparently, Frum elementary schools never teach kids basic mentchlichkeit

.

Buying stuff, opening and destroying the package, using the item, and then deciding that you have "buyers remorse" doesn't entitle you to free returns. Items that break due to mistreatment are not the responsibility of the store.

 

Is pure Lashan Hara and Montzei Shem Rah. I guess AYLOR 

[Redbull3]

Two points here:

1. I have been on both ends of this. Most Frum people that open a store are excited to do business and be nice to customers. Every business owner WANTS to be nice. The problem is that there is an entitlement mentality among Frum customers.

Apparently, Frum elementary schools never teach kids basic mentchlichkeit. Buying stuff, opening and destroying the package, using the item, and then deciding that you have "buyers remorse" doesn't entitle you to free returns. Items that break due to mistreatment are not the responsibility of the store. When these kinds of customers come back over and over and over, you start to develop an intolerance and impose firm rules and regulations to protect your business. Unfortunately these rules are universal and apply to the well-intentioned customers as well.
 
2. Yelp damages businesses. Happy customers almost NEVER leave reviews. They can't be bothered. The customers leaving reviews are the angry, vengeful customers who want to destroy the business. Starting this thread to talk exclusively about negative experiences has that exact same effect.

What in the WORLD are you talking about. There are millions of positive reviews on yelp.

[yuneeq]

Yelp isn't only Jewish reviewers.

Oh, I got it now.

Jewish reviewers are always negative.
And Jewish stores are always a positive experience except in some rare uncontrollable circumstances.

[Hershelsdeals]

Exactly what? Were you the one who were busy about Lashan Hara? Now you're agreeing with someone who is saying Lashan Hara on an entire community? I'm confused. Never mind that it's not even true, I have close relatives with store fronts who could easily get away with bad customer service with this lousy excuses but they don't and it's just not true. There are always people who are not Mentchlich but most people are and if something Jews are more Mentchlich and care about others. I know that when it comes to argue about a price etc Jews will be the first to make sure they get the absolute best deal but to say that . 
 
Is pure Lashan Hara and Montzei Shem Rah. I guess AYLOR 

I quit JS.

This is not going to get anywhere

[Redbull3]

Personally I think negative reviews are halachically and morally good to provide, but I still think it might be more prudent to change this thread to include positive reviews as well, maybe something broad like Heimishe Store Reviews.

[lechatchileh ariber]

Personally I think negative reviews are halachically and morally good to provide, but I still think it might be more prudent to change this thread to include positive reviews as well, maybe something broad like Heimishe Store Reviews.

+1
Although I see both sides of the argument, to me the title reads  "The Official 'Hate on Heimishe Stores' Thread ".

[Sport]

Not sure where schools come into the picture here. I always thought schools were to teach information and skills while mentchlichkeit was supposed to come from the home. If they learn it at home the school is not needed if they don't the school will not help.

+1 didn't want to take this thread off topic, but once you did...
Sorry @zale but the entitlement mentality is rampant amongst the frum community and has nothing to do with the schools. Just look at any walmart price mistake thread.
Unless most ddfers are teachers.

Not sure where schools come into the picture here. I always thought schools were to teach information and skills while mentchlichkeit was supposed to come from the home. If they learn it at home the school is not needed if they don't the school will not help.

[Work-for-ur-muny]

Ok. To all those who did manage to see the disrespectful segment of my post, I publicly apologize and did not mean to specifically put down anyone, but to emphasize an extent to which a situation has reached. Actually, mods have deleted that whole discussion as I was modifying my post and preparing my apology. When I hit "save" I brought up nothing cuz of the deletion.

(Referring to (a) previously deleted post/s.)

Mods, feel free to delete this as well.